MelasD : [Salvos] 738. Sacrifices (Removed for KU)

I don't see it as forced evolution - it was just "unlocking of sin" and it's what normally happens at lvl. 70; the part about becoming archdemon was merely conjecture at her part, and she herself increasingly felt like that's not what's going to happen. As for Jofis, his degradation is indeed exceptional and quite strange. I understand degradation on the level of titles, and I understand the concept of your next evolution/class advancement calling you a fallen something, and I understand losing stats from losing a title, but I don't understand how one can lose an evolution. Evolving should not be based on stats received from titles, which would make it conditional. It's based on levels and experience, and the only way I can see one losing those is that the System revokes them because it recognises an error, for instance it thinks you killed someone but it was an illusion, like with Belzu. However, not even in such cases have we seen the experience being revoked, and it would have to be something major to warrant revoking an evolution. Something like revoking the experience Jofis got from "killing" Paimon, which got him the evolution in the first place? I mean, I would expect Samuel to have lost his Title as well, and he's now "Disgraced King of Netherworld" or something, the way Faith is the "Fallen Queen of Elutra", but the concept of degradation affecting levels and evolution is unheard of. It's not theoretically impossible, because I did ask myself what happens if you evolve based on experience that was granted based on something that was un-done. It's just something that has all sorts of problematic implications.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-26 08:12:22 +0000 UTC

There has been two instances of subtle forced evolution in this series, the most recent is Jofis who fell from lvl 200 and went from a hell king to a disgraced hell king, and the first time, is when salvos was traveling with just Daniel and they were in search of fairies, where she was a greater demon and her next evolution would have been arch demon but with some achievement and skills she got a forced an evolution to greater demon of pride

Travis Brown

2024-11-26 06:58:57 +0000 UTC

I don't know what you mean by forced evolution, but there is precedent for demonic essence (and I think that is what's the point of this ritual) being tapped into by a third party - Haec was able to enhance her stats with demonic essence that leaked out of Jofis. So, she can't do it herself yet but it's possible. I don't have a clear idea here, but the concept just imposes itself due to the expected circumstances.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-26 06:48:26 +0000 UTC

Do you think she might get a forced evolution like when she went from a greater demon to a greater demon of pride becoming a Asura changling

Travis Brown

2024-11-26 00:40:02 +0000 UTC

"I'd say Reggie collects a large quantity of demonic essence to fuel his ritual." - let's say Salvos happens to absorb at least part of that. I don't know how or why, but the association is obvious - like, she happens to jump into that, and what are the possibilities? Either it hurts her, does nothing or benefits her. Let's say it's unlikely it does nothing.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-25 23:12:11 +0000 UTC

" The only difference would be that the matriarch was only a partially corrupted entity that is still alive - similar to salvos - and was not killed BY corruption, unlike almost every other case. " - that is true. Also, she remained in that state for a long time, which implies that Salvos is not in immediate danger of things going south (and by that I mean sharing the fate of the Hydra). "Alexander is still a mystery. His death was asserted, but may just be a fabrication." - all true, and let's not forget that nobody actually knows how he got there, which is why I suspect foul play of the Trico kind - basically, another sock puppet, which very conveniently made a deal with his original sock puppet, Soli, to make a deal that benefits him, probably by giving him a share of experience from every transaction, which would add up enormously across the millennia. I'd say his main plan is to become a True God, and his secondary plan is to accelerate the destruction of Nexeus in order to finally bury all the evidence. "The saint (forgot her name)" - Melissa; which, interestingly, is the kind of a name a Fairy would have.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-25 23:08:45 +0000 UTC

You bring up valid points. The only difference would be that the matriarch was only a partially corrupted entity that is still alive - similar to salvos - and was not killed BY corruption, unlike almost every other case. Paimon is interesting, but it did want to die. Then again, the Matriarch is still a swarm monster and the devil might also have only been referring to demons. Alexander is still a mystery. His death was asserted, but may just be a fabrication. Either that or Regnorex killed him as many times as it took to keep him dead, as the successive respawns are implied to not be unlimited. The saint (forgot her name) - the only other human to reach past level 200 so far as I remember - is still alive.

Salvos Enjoyer

2024-11-25 22:44:45 +0000 UTC

I got around to reading the "Tian" series and I'm thinking about the possible relevance to "Salvos". Basically, it looks like Melas is playing with variations on the theme of a broken world and its ending, and the role of the evolving main character in it. In "Tian", the main character grows strong enough to save a few people, but the world itself is destroyed. In "Amelia", the main character tries not to give a damn about the world and wants to stay out of any kind of cosmic destiny - she doesn't evolve in power because she starts as basically omnipotent, but seems to evolve in her motivation. With "Salvos", the MC evolves in both power and spiritual maturity. As for power, we don't actually know who will end up being the strongest. Amelia is a very powerful Worldwalker, young and inexperienced but currently the strongest of all three; her system is unknown but it's essentially the Nietzschean thing, survive and get stronger by doing so. Tian is an entry-level Worldwalker, a very powerful Mage using a variant of the Chinese chi/shen cultivation system. Salvos is using a RPG-style advancement method that makes more sense than Amelia's, but far less than Tian's (or Kara's, while we're at it), because the way mana, experience and Divinity actually interact isn's described or known. One would expect experience to come from absorbing residual mana from defeated opponents, but that's obviously not the case, for instance, and one would also expect Divinity to be explained by a transformation of chi to shen (or mana to Divinity) at certain concentrations and degrees of purity. So, the destiny of the world. We've seen the MC maintain equilibrium with the seemingly unbeatable evil god in Amelia. We've seen the MC to fight heroically but lose due to the enormous discrepancy in power, in Tian. We've also seen characters attain the status of a Worldwalker, but not of a True God. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want "Salvos" to end as merely another variant of this, because Salvos looks like someone who is a very good True God material, with her unique combination of traits. Also, the assumptions of the meta-verse are quite depressing - you basically have an evil empire of AI zombies destroying world after world, with good guys failing to do anything about it or not giving a fuck, half the worlds are dying for some reason while almost all of them are in danger of a random invasion, and what seems to be a police force of the Multiverse can be killed by a renegade Worldwalker, meaning that The Good doesn't have actual power behind it. Salvos looks like an excellent candidate, for multiple reasons. She is demonstrably unbiased, and proved herself perfectly capable of deep compassion that transcends race or species; she's extremely intelligent, and capable of reaching profound and accurate conclusions based on limited information; she has a unique combination of a loving nature and ability to acquire and exert power. If there's anyone capable of working with various beings across universes, figuring out what the problems are and solving them, I guess it's her. So, what could she do, if given unlimited power? She would repair her own world and eliminate troublemakers that threaten it, all the while remaining a loving person who's very much grounded in relationships with actual people, without caring too much for the abstractions. Eventually, if a multiversal menace happens to stumble upon the world under her protection, it would be destroyed, and she would look into it more and basically fix problems that are common across Universes, such as Worldwalkers and Void Pirates doing terrible damage. Also, she is someone who would maintain a "hands off" approach and not mess with things if they are none of her business. However, if something becomes her business, she would have the power to do something about it. If anything, she's very good at dealing with pests that trouble some area; essentially, she deals with "wild" creatures so that others might live in peace and mind their own business.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-25 21:20:07 +0000 UTC

I'd say Reggie collects a large quantity of demonic essence to fuel his ritual. That's the first source of energy. Secondly, the ritual will likely attract corruption, another source of energy. At some point while bathing in those energies, I think Salvos will reconnect with Sally, the final piece of the puzzle. The reconnection might be what will force Salvos to cocoon herself in her world with the rampant energies, triggering her primordial evolution in a catalyzing environment that allows her to evolve her divine species. During/after that, I think the Netherworld will either collabse into the Mortal Realm or fundamentally transform. Or those elements happen in sequence instead of together and are resolved independently.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-24 22:07:08 +0000 UTC

Energy or exp that sally has gathered in her time in the mortal realm

Travis Brown

2024-11-24 16:52:14 +0000 UTC

"Salvos bathes in the ritual energies" - I keep wondering what happens then. Is it possible that she manages to tap into that vast pool of energy and absorb it somehow?

Danijel Turina

2024-11-24 16:40:34 +0000 UTC

We saw with Manos vs Jofis, a single skill and a couple of hits can permanently kill an Immortal. He completely destroyed Jofis' body leaving nothing behind and then proceeded to atk Jofis' head until it was nothing more than a blood stain. We also saw three Ophanims getting permanently killed when they were about to resurrect after dying once. The Archangel didn't wait for them to finish their resurrection. Lotus was killed when her body was torn apart and the pieces were immediately absorbed by the corruption. There wasn't even a chance of resurrection. The circumstances behind Alexander's death are unkown. We can't use it for either position. From what we were told and saw, being Immortal allows one to cheat death multiple times. But that doesn't necessarily mean they can't permanently die with a single death. We saw that it takes a few moments for an Immortal to come back to life. And during those moments their bodies are vulnerable.

Gonvas

2024-11-23 21:01:16 +0000 UTC

Matriarch Centinel is not a Primordial Demon. Even if what the Devil said were universally true for all Primordial Demons, and we know it's not because we know of cases where they died without rebirth, there are other lvl 200s that we know of that just died when killed - Lotus and Alexander, for instance. So, I wouldn't put much faith into what Samuel said there, because for the most part he was trying to curb Salvos' unwarranted enthusiasm. I think the lesson is that they are much harder to kill than she thought, and immortality is a thing.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-23 18:43:49 +0000 UTC

Regardless, I'd hate to be in a position to emotionally identify with multiple Salvos-versions that do or do not die. Even now, it's hard for me not to go through the worst case scenario where Salvos basically sacrifices herself to stop that ritual thinking "well, at least there's that clone I left in the Mortal Realm", and then Sally dies thinking "well, at least there's Salvos somewhere in the Netherworld". :)

Danijel Turina

2024-11-23 18:09:59 +0000 UTC

Btw, what's this about type of immortals? Where does it come from? D&D reference?

Gonvas

2024-11-23 15:14:10 +0000 UTC

1 chapter before that one, the Devil said that to Primordial Demons death is but a nuisance. Then, in the following chapter he gave the Agarus example.

Gonvas

2024-11-23 11:27:56 +0000 UTC

I think you're referring to this section: Book 11, chapter 42: Path to Primordial “[The Great Agarus] once died six times in a single day, and it returned each time because of its Skills. Perhaps if slain four more times, it would have eventually permanently succumbed to death. But at that point, killing it becomes a mere hindrance, rather than the threat it is to one such as you.” - Samuel What that says in context: A primordial (rebirth) skill is incomparably better than a similar skill of a lower level creature's. This doesn't say anything about primordials' mortality in general. It only strongly suggests that [The Great Agarus] is type 4 immortal. I'm will absolutely change my mind here. That is, if you give me an appropriate passage in the books.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-23 10:28:45 +0000 UTC

and sal already confirmed lvl 200 demons at least are type 4 immortals, the question is just if mortals and spirits get raised to that level too

Brandon14754

2024-11-23 02:31:25 +0000 UTC

demons and spirits are type 1 immortals from birth

Brandon14754

2024-11-23 02:29:15 +0000 UTC

I think 200+s are only type 1 immortals (don't die of old age). They are tough because of their stats and skills. Salvos might already be comparably tough because of [Corrupted Regeneration] (depending on what it does exactly, Salvos might already be type 3 immortal, not just immune to age and very resistent but capable of regenerating normally lethal wounds). Jofis, [Great Agarus], Mori and Desidia(?) all have/had various degrees of type 4 immortality (by reincarnation/resurrection). The Deltaverse doesn't seem to have type 5 absolute immortality at all, much less every 200+ being one.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-23 02:12:01 +0000 UTC

I'm 90% sure the explosion wasn't something Salvos got to use on herself. I think it's the explosion from an evolved [Salvo of Vanity]. Alternatively, it might be derived from her mark or from her Armageddon skill. My money is on the following timeline: Salvos bathes in the ritual energies -> Sally uses the goblet -> syncing begins -> Salvos realizes she can't save Rachel&wyverns & possibly other companions -> [Salvo of Vanity] becomes grand -> Sally is empowered -> Kaboom!

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-22 22:59:41 +0000 UTC

IF they all do their own important thing

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-22 22:48:52 +0000 UTC

"the clones have 0 inherent narrative downsides" - not sure about that, as it would very likely fragment the Salvos story and make it harder to focus on the central narrative.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 19:37:47 +0000 UTC

though in the case of the archangels death it seems being able to shatter souls also works to kill immortals, I imagine shattering souls is just a very rare power even amoung lvl 200s

Brandon14754

2024-11-22 19:24:58 +0000 UTC

this also works with the supreme spirits the archangel killed, he turned them to dust so they died in only 1 death

Brandon14754

2024-11-22 19:21:58 +0000 UTC

the Immortality of lvl 200s just seems to be the ability to revive multiple times in a row as long as their body survives, we didn't see how paimon died, or alexander, so they could've died like 5 times or been turned to dust like we saw with jofis. when the great agarus revived it burst out of it's old dead body, as for the hyrda corruption slowly completely destroys the body so of course it can permanently kill a being in one death as long as the corruption completely destroys the body. in short how I think immortality works is as long as their body is partially intact like we saw with jofis or the great agarus then they can be revived but if their body is entirely erased then they can be killed in 1 death without the need for the bonus of the title salvos got

Brandon14754

2024-11-22 19:14:45 +0000 UTC

As we saw with Jofis and others, Immortals can be killed.

Gonvas

2024-11-22 18:52:18 +0000 UTC

I think it would open up a lot of options to flesh Sally out as her own character. And the fun thing about clones is that Salvos can and will dismiss them if they interfere too much in social situations. Aside from Salvos getting disproportionately many actions per turn, the clones have 0 inherent narrative downsides IMO, even compared to full characters.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-22 17:13:46 +0000 UTC

There's another thing Rachel didn't get. The banter between Salvos and Daniel was because Salvos instinctively chose a path that minimised sexual tension. Daniel would become stiff and awkward whenever Salvos would appear and behave feminine, and Salvos of course didn't understand why, but felt something was off, and then behaved in ways that eliminated the awkwardness - which was basically acting like a violent tomboy sister that dresses in surplus military fatigues and is into knives, explosions and goth stuff. :) So there's that whole undertone that went completely over Rachel's head, while Edithe would get it and just giggle.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 16:38:55 +0000 UTC

Not only am I pretty sure she's dead, I'm pretty sure immortality at 200 is a myth, or, to be precise, something that is valid for a certain percentage of Demons, but for which there is absolutely no evidence outside of that. Case in point: Alexander, supposedly immortal, was killed by Regnorex; no rebirth, just dead. Hydra, got corrupted, died. Paimon the Slave, just died, no immortality or anything. Literally the only ones we positively know were "immortal" are Great Agarus, who was reborn six times in a day once, and Jofis, because Salvos got a Title saying so, after he was killed. We have Jofis who became mortal after Salvos blasted him with corruption, we have Hydra who was killed by corruption, we have Nahum, Baal, Buer, Furfur and other Primordials who were instantly killed by the end of the world, no rebirth, and Hydra who was killed by the corruption and whose corrupted corpse is now an element of environmental pollution of the Netherworld underground. We also have more than just hints that lesser gods (Dragons and others) died to corruption in the Endlands and elsewhere. Not to forget Lotus, lvl 200, killed by a single blow from a corrupted heavenspace, no rebirth. This is the foundation of my hypothesis that corruption in basically 100% of known cases neutralises immortality, and that "immortal" beings can be quite effectively killed. So yes, as highly levelled as the Matriarch is, I think she's quite safely dead. The actually unpleasant part of this is that there will be no rebirth for Salvos unless she un-corrupts herself.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 14:27:46 +0000 UTC

This also puzles me. My persoal guess would be the skill uses all of her being to take down an otherwise impossible enemy - with some kind of revival function, but probably at great cost. This would be on brand with her personality and sin of pride. That said, it's even more likely Melas is throwing us a giant red herring.

Salvos Enjoyer

2024-11-22 14:24:27 +0000 UTC

"I'm expecting immortality to be a feature of all lvl 200s" - that's demonstrably wrong, as Paimon the Slave died without rebirth at the first instant she was killed, Hydra got killed by the corruption, Alexander got killed by Regnorex, and honestly, there are so many exceptions there I don't think immortality at lvl 200 is a rule at all.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 14:16:42 +0000 UTC

Don't forget, the jury is still out on that one. What makes you so convincerd the Matriarch is an outlier to the norm of lvl 200+ entities being able to cheat death in some fashion?

Salvos Enjoyer

2024-11-22 14:08:16 +0000 UTC

I'm expecting immortality to be a feature of all lvl 200s. But that doesn’t necessarily mean immortality works the same for all species.

Gonvas

2024-11-22 12:39:56 +0000 UTC

Manos is the one that got the kill on Jofis. He's the one that managed to overpower Jofis's skills and completely disintegrate his body. Salvos couldn't and didn't do that. Only that final kill made the system show msgs about XP and title. The system took into account the whole fight and Salvos contribution was enough to unlock her new title.

Gonvas

2024-11-22 12:29:46 +0000 UTC

"isn't thinking clearly" - absolutely. She's basically talking herself into suicide, because "she has no other options". What she needs is a friend to tell her to stop that shit immediately.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 10:08:05 +0000 UTC

I'm afraid this sounds very plausible. :) Also, I think one of her main problems is that she tries to emulate Salvos, but that's Salvos as she remembers her, and Salvos was always more foolish and over the top in appearance than in reality, and she was also at her most foolish phase then, between lvl 50 and Plaguelands. I don't think they even met much since that; Salvos went to see Lilly, then enrol in Mavos Academy, then the Rainforest of Monsters, then Beastmen Plains, Bloodied Gulf, and so on, and that's when Salvos had the most emotional growth, from foolish, rash and egotistical, to considerate, empathic and much more socially adjusted. So, basically, Rachel is trying to emulate rash and foolish, and it's working just as well as one would expect. Also, Rachel seems to have taken much of Salvos' outward foolishness and banter at face value - for instance, I don't think she realises how much Salvos cares for Daniel. And so, she did something rash and foolish with all the self-confidence of a lvl 50 Salvos, and she got Sally killed and everybody else in mortal danger. I think this lesson is going to stick.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 09:27:56 +0000 UTC

Yay, the Powerpuff girls! :) Please no.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-22 09:13:16 +0000 UTC

It that was the case, I don't think she would have got the title. I'm firmly with @Danijel on this one. I don't think Manos had as much impact as he appeared to have. He might have just tried to deny Salvos the experience.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-22 06:56:57 +0000 UTC

That sound hilarious! I love the idea! It would make the future cloning skill a bit complicated, since there would have to be the five anointed clones, some regular clones to get to at least 10 (her current max), distict clones of each anointed clone and possibly clones of her regular clones. And then there is the question if each of them can only summon their own clones or if they can summon any variant. What if each anointed clone was visually distinct with one radically different personality trait? Strength: Hulk-vos (larger, simpleminded) Vitality: Sal-Frost (diamond body, aloft) Agility: Flash-vos (can't stay still) Wisdom: Sam-vos (hooved floating imp, prankster) Endurance: Sally (looks like Salvos, independent) That would be so hilarious! Imagine the five of them squabbling!

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-22 06:53:34 +0000 UTC

What if it becomes like her own sentai/magical-girl squad. Like what if each clone develops distinct personality and name and each has their own special color mixed into their flames. Possibly each with a different special ability or something. Like each clone is normally weaker across the board from Salvos, but what if each upgraded clone matches her power in one specific trait. Perhaps one special named clone per stat, or something?

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-22 00:23:46 +0000 UTC

Yeah definitely, but she is desperate and as a result probably isn't thinking clearly

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-22 00:19:22 +0000 UTC

he literally revived after he was corrupted, salvos didn't circumvent anything the reason he died after only 2 deaths is manos literally cut him into dust

Brandon14754

2024-11-21 23:24:33 +0000 UTC

I guess it's possible, or we could say there's a nonzero probability. We can also say there's a nonzero probability of surviving Russian roulette with one out of six bullets missing from the barrel. :) Edithe's situation is the only one where I feel creeped out about it. I don't like where it seems to be going.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 22:55:28 +0000 UTC

Well there is the chance that the proccess goes horribly wrong for Iudex and all that get dumped into Edithe's body are a few scraps of memory and most of Iudex's power resulting in Edithe suddenly having the powers of an archangel herself

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-21 22:49:49 +0000 UTC

I like the idea of Sally being part of Salvo of Vanity

Użytkownik Przeciętny

2024-11-21 22:35:27 +0000 UTC

Jofis was killed because Salvos circumvented his immortality, and she got a Title for it.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 22:24:41 +0000 UTC

jofis did revive after being corrupted then killed and the corruption was removed, it was manos who actually killed him. Also we know at lvl 200 mortals become ageless and the spirit lord liked Alexander for overcoming his mortality so there's a good chance at lvl 200 mortals become equal to spirits and demons in terms of power

Brandon14754

2024-11-21 22:20:13 +0000 UTC

She's not a Demon. I don't see Centinels having such special features. Also, she's corrupted AF, and I don't see that as compatible with immortality, case in point Jofis.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 18:06:24 +0000 UTC

We have no idea when Salvos got that skill. She might have got it when Sally synced up and she realized her companions across the plains are in heaps of trouble. In that scenario your (very reasonable) expectation would be met.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 16:10:59 +0000 UTC

Oh, I think he figured that one out already, it's just that he doesn't understand that Sally just killed the Matriarch Centinel.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 15:22:29 +0000 UTC

"I feel like Soli would take over a body by force instead of tricking Person. So it is unlikely him." - considering that I think Soli is merely a sock puppet for Trico, tricking someone to fuck himself of his own free will is literally his last name.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 15:15:34 +0000 UTC

My assumption would be that the [I am ???] Skill is like an skill booster for ordinary skills. So Sally could boost herself and her explosion property. Because i expected the [Salvo of vanity] Skill to evolve only after Sally returned to Salvos.

Tim

2024-11-21 13:39:46 +0000 UTC

I feel like Soli would take over a body by force instead of tricking Person. So it is unlikely him.

Tim

2024-11-21 13:21:54 +0000 UTC

I look forward to seeing Clayton's reaction once he realizes the explosion was Sally

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-21 13:12:14 +0000 UTC

I'm not that sure it is Soli anymore. But to the scenario you suggest: That doesn't fit the tone of the story. Additionally, Soli seems to be happy to just wait. The only creature he will come in conflicts with is Salvos. And in that constellation it wouldn't take long until Salvos figures it out.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 12:33:30 +0000 UTC

I don't think she'll get anything, I think Soli will get her body, her soul will get destroyed or sidelined at best, and Soli will be able to pose as Edithe Dawnrise in the Mortal Realm and do incredible harm.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 11:45:31 +0000 UTC

I honestly can't say I am any more clued-in after this chapter than I was after the previous one. Edithe looks in more danger of screwing herself than before. We know that the clones didn't persist. We know that Clayton and Rachel made it back and Rachel is still dying since she's surrounded by fools. We know that the Academy survived the shockwave since the barrier is up. However, the main cliffhangers are still as nerve-wrecking as before. :(

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 11:18:33 +0000 UTC

I'd say her return is certain at the point where he sees something incomprehensible just happening. 😉

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 10:56:56 +0000 UTC

I actually prefer the explanation that the [I am ???] GS is an evolution of [Salvo of Vanity] and the jittering happens because Sally's conscious travels to the Netherworld.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 10:55:13 +0000 UTC

The way it is said, Edithe might just get a part of Iudex' power and memories without necessarily major downsides. Also I don't think it's an illusion, I think it's more like the evolutionary mindscape.

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 10:49:46 +0000 UTC

"as the swarm of Centinels abruptly came to a halt and looked back towards the explosion too" - no, mommy ain't coming back from that one.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 10:15:20 +0000 UTC

The fact that the connection to the clone with Rachel was jittery in the end would suggest a disruption of some kind, and the hypothesis that this might perform some kind of a reset makes sense.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 10:11:50 +0000 UTC

Yes! @Atsuke, you're right! Salvos' clones can explode! How have I not made that connection! If [I am ???] is a GS derived from [Salvo of Vanity], that would make sense! And! And! And it would mean my hope that Salvos further develops [Salvo of Vanity] came true! If that's the case... That'd be awesome! The possibilities are endless! My only remaining question is why Sally had to activate the skill, but that's more a how, not a why question. But everything else makes perfect sense! Salvos apparently sacrificing herself in Haec's eyes is unrelated. Sally does sacrifice herself in a way by triggering that feature in herself as a Salvos clone. Sally's clones disappear, because their original (Sally) is destroyed. Man, I get shivers just thinking about the minimum implications! Clones of clones! Imagine that! Just imagine the impact on Salvos' action economy to borrow a DnD-Term!

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 10:10:02 +0000 UTC

My guess is that Salvos would have a destructive GS only if it enhances and regenerates her at the same time, not if it kills her in the process. Also, one way of interpreting the fact that clones lost connection with Sally is that Sally is no longer Sally, and the inferior Skill that created them no longer exists. Basically, the aftermath of the explosion might be a full-manifestation of Salvos. Also, that explosion looks like something in the megaton range. Definitely in the order of magnitude of what a Primordial would have as a GS. Not as powerful as the one the Beast fired off, because that one would turn Shedos into a lake of lava.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 10:00:07 +0000 UTC

I kinda hope Willy breaks through that illusion and whacks her on the stupid head. Stupid stupid stupid.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 09:53:16 +0000 UTC

"I can still only see Sally's death as a misdirection." - I think almost everything here is a misdirection of some sorts, in a sense that what happened is likely the opposite of what we were made to believe. The only thing that really concerns me is Edithe. She seems to be foolish enough to actually get herself killed for no good reason, at least if she doesn't turn her brain on in time.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 09:45:55 +0000 UTC

Rachel is still in danger; none of those damn fool Mages is an adventurer, who would have a healing potion ready, and Oriur is the worst person to try and get it - "Monster!!"

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 09:22:20 +0000 UTC

Is Edithe stupid? She's about to get herself killed and for no good reason whatsoever. No! Besides, that thing sounds calm and calculated, completely unlike the voice of the Archangel she heard before.

Danijel Turina

2024-11-21 08:19:52 +0000 UTC

If the boom is based on durability then the invincibility grand skill surely buffs it a lot

Danielv123

2024-11-21 07:47:36 +0000 UTC

Remember he is in love with her which is why I included thsy first sentence. To show his hope for her return

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-21 07:21:18 +0000 UTC

He would just facepalm "Salvos... What did you do this time?" 😉

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 07:11:07 +0000 UTC

Or it's a phoenix-style metamorphosis where she expends all her energy to reset her body's energy ecosystem to get rid of debuffs like the corrupting aspect of the corruption!

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 07:10:11 +0000 UTC

I can still only see Sally's death as a misdirection. I think she will in a way reincarnate into an evolved [Salvo of Vanity]

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-21 07:06:33 +0000 UTC

She could have a grand skill that makes one of the clones explode like a nuclear blast, though

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-21 06:42:41 +0000 UTC

Imagine if Daniel sees the mushroom cloud from where he is and as soon as he stops staring at it in the shock of recognizing the signs of a nuclear blast level explosion, he face palms and quitely asks no one in particular: "Salvos, are you back? What did you do?"

ArcaneOverride

2024-11-21 03:05:53 +0000 UTC

could just be sally was moved somewhere that completely cut off connection to sally so the sally clones evaporated without a connection

Brandon14754

2024-11-21 01:00:21 +0000 UTC

I can’t see someone like salvos who loves herself, having a suicide bomb GS

Travis Brown

2024-11-21 00:24:48 +0000 UTC

my theory is that the GS is related to salvos' cloning skill, if not an evolution of it, that or the skill is more self destructive when the clones use it than when salvos uses it because of the clones' lower durability.

Atsuke

2024-11-20 23:42:19 +0000 UTC

Sally dying again hurts 😭, I wonder what'll happen with Edithe, hopefully it's a positive outcome. Can't wait for the next chapter.

Azrie

2024-11-20 23:23:12 +0000 UTC

Thanks for the chapter!

Wensber

2024-11-20 23:23:10 +0000 UTC

This builds the image that Sally sacrificed herself for real, mimicing Salvos doing the same by using a GS Salvos must have used at least once. But I'm pretty sure that's cleverly misdirected! What is that GS? What does it do? And what's up with Salvos?

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-20 23:21:39 +0000 UTC

Rachel you are a good kid, and in life bad things can happen for no reason, what trying to say is you might be a jinx, it’s like there is a hidden luck stat and your is at -999

Travis Brown

2024-11-20 23:19:38 +0000 UTC

Oooooh! I... This is... ! I need things clearing up! Not shit going off the rails even more! The last chapter and this one! Amazing! The tension keeps going up! Mavos side was mostly recap of last chapter's peak conclusion(?) from a different perspective, but Edithe! I'm concerned and curious!

Dragonmaster_42

2024-11-20 23:16:00 +0000 UTC

Great chapter, leaves on an amazing cliffhanger. Why was the dialogue cut off? - is it because Salvos, having obtained sally's memories, decided to chase after Edithe to bring her back? - is it because of other external interference? So many possibilities, these recent chapters are really well written. Especially Mavos Academy side of things. Once again, great work Melas.

Borys Wisniewski

2024-11-20 23:11:41 +0000 UTC

Litteraly just bought the book, and the chapter was posted :)

Użytkownik Przeciętny

2024-11-20 23:06:27 +0000 UTC

Sally going nuclear just what is that GS

Bruhcus the first

2024-11-20 23:03:16 +0000 UTC

Sally, you deserved better I’ll never forget you

Travis Brown

2024-11-20 23:02:18 +0000 UTC

First sentence " as he flew back through the small", "small hole"? The word is missing

Borys Wisniewski

2024-11-20 22:50:51 +0000 UTC

Finally

Borys Wisniewski

2024-11-20 22:49:47 +0000 UTC

[Salvos] 738. Sacrifices (Removed for KU)

Comments

Do you think she might get a forced evolution like when she went from a greater demon to a greater demon of pride becoming a Asura changling

Energy or exp that sally has gathered in her time in the mortal realm

"Salvos bathes in the ritual energies" - I keep wondering what happens then. Is it possible that she manages to tap into that vast pool of energy and absorb it somehow?

Btw, what's this about type of immortals? Where does it come from? D&D reference?

1 chapter before that one, the Devil said that to Primordial Demons death is but a nuisance. Then, in the following chapter he gave the Agarus example.

and sal already confirmed lvl 200 demons at least are type 4 immortals, the question is just if mortals and spirits get raised to that level too

demons and spirits are type 1 immortals from birth

IF they all do their own important thing

"the clones have 0 inherent narrative downsides" - not sure about that, as it would very likely fragment the Salvos story and make it harder to focus on the central narrative.

though in the case of the archangels death it seems being able to shatter souls also works to kill immortals, I imagine shattering souls is just a very rare power even amoung lvl 200s

this also works with the supreme spirits the archangel killed, he turned them to dust so they died in only 1 death

As we saw with Jofis and others, Immortals can be killed.

Don't forget, the jury is still out on that one. What makes you so convincerd the Matriarch is an outlier to the norm of lvl 200+ entities being able to cheat death in some fashion?

I'm expecting immortality to be a feature of all lvl 200s. But that doesn’t necessarily mean immortality works the same for all species.

"isn't thinking clearly" - absolutely. She's basically talking herself into suicide, because "she has no other options". What she needs is a friend to tell her to stop that shit immediately.

Yay, the Powerpuff girls! :) Please no.

It that was the case, I don't think she would have got the title. I'm firmly with @Danijel on this one. I don't think Manos had as much impact as he appeared to have. He might have just tried to deny Salvos the experience.

Yeah definitely, but she is desperate and as a result probably isn't thinking clearly

he literally revived after he was corrupted, salvos didn't circumvent anything the reason he died after only 2 deaths is manos literally cut him into dust

Well there is the chance that the proccess goes horribly wrong for Iudex and all that get dumped into Edithe's body are a few scraps of memory and most of Iudex's power resulting in Edithe suddenly having the powers of an archangel herself

I like the idea of Sally being part of Salvo of Vanity

Jofis was killed because Salvos circumvented his immortality, and she got a Title for it.

She's not a Demon. I don't see Centinels having such special features. Also, she's corrupted AF, and I don't see that as compatible with immortality, case in point Jofis.

We have no idea when Salvos got that skill. She might have got it when Sally synced up and she realized her companions across the plains are in heaps of trouble. In that scenario your (very reasonable) expectation would be met.

Oh, I think he figured that one out already, it's just that he doesn't understand that Sally just killed the Matriarch Centinel.

"I feel like Soli would take over a body by force instead of tricking Person. So it is unlikely him." - considering that I think Soli is merely a sock puppet for Trico, tricking someone to fuck himself of his own free will is literally his last name.

My assumption would be that the [I am ???] Skill is like an skill booster for ordinary skills. So Sally could boost herself and her explosion property. Because i expected the [Salvo of vanity] Skill to evolve only after Sally returned to Salvos.

I feel like Soli would take over a body by force instead of tricking Person. So it is unlikely him.

I look forward to seeing Clayton's reaction once he realizes the explosion was Sally

I'm not that sure it is Soli anymore. But to the scenario you suggest: That doesn't fit the tone of the story. Additionally, Soli seems to be happy to just wait. The only creature he will come in conflicts with is Salvos. And in that constellation it wouldn't take long until Salvos figures it out.

I don't think she'll get anything, I think Soli will get her body, her soul will get destroyed or sidelined at best, and Soli will be able to pose as Edithe Dawnrise in the Mortal Realm and do incredible harm.

I'd say her return is certain at the point where he sees something incomprehensible just happening. 😉

I actually prefer the explanation that the [I am ???] GS is an evolution of [Salvo of Vanity] and the jittering happens because Sally's conscious travels to the Netherworld.

The way it is said, Edithe might just get a part of Iudex' power and memories without necessarily major downsides. Also I don't think it's an illusion, I think it's more like the evolutionary mindscape.

"as the swarm of Centinels abruptly came to a halt and looked back towards the explosion too" - no, mommy ain't coming back from that one.

The fact that the connection to the clone with Rachel was jittery in the end would suggest a disruption of some kind, and the hypothesis that this might perform some kind of a reset makes sense.

I kinda hope Willy breaks through that illusion and whacks her on the stupid head. Stupid stupid stupid.

Rachel is still in danger; none of those damn fool Mages is an adventurer, who would have a healing potion ready, and Oriur is the worst person to try and get it - "Monster!!"

Is Edithe stupid? She's about to get herself killed and for no good reason whatsoever. No! Besides, that thing sounds calm and calculated, completely unlike the voice of the Archangel she heard before.

If the boom is based on durability then the invincibility grand skill surely buffs it a lot

Remember he is in love with her which is why I included thsy first sentence. To show his hope for her return

He would just facepalm "Salvos... What did you do this time?" 😉

Or it's a phoenix-style metamorphosis where she expends all her energy to reset her body's energy ecosystem to get rid of debuffs like the corrupting aspect of the corruption!

I can still only see Sally's death as a misdirection. I think she will in a way reincarnate into an evolved [Salvo of Vanity]

She could have a grand skill that makes one of the clones explode like a nuclear blast, though

Imagine if Daniel sees the mushroom cloud from where he is and as soon as he stops staring at it in the shock of recognizing the signs of a nuclear blast level explosion, he face palms and quitely asks no one in particular: "Salvos, are you back? What did you do?"

could just be sally was moved somewhere that completely cut off connection to sally so the sally clones evaporated without a connection

I can’t see someone like salvos who loves herself, having a suicide bomb GS

my theory is that the GS is related to salvos' cloning skill, if not an evolution of it, that or the skill is more self destructive when the clones use it than when salvos uses it because of the clones' lower durability.

Sally dying again hurts 😭, I wonder what'll happen with Edithe, hopefully it's a positive outcome. Can't wait for the next chapter.

Thanks for the chapter!

This builds the image that Sally sacrificed herself for real, mimicing Salvos doing the same by using a GS Salvos must have used at least once. But I'm pretty sure that's cleverly misdirected! What is that GS? What does it do? And what's up with Salvos?

Rachel you are a good kid, and in life bad things can happen for no reason, what trying to say is you might be a jinx, it’s like there is a hidden luck stat and your is at -999

Oooooh! I... This is... ! I need things clearing up! Not shit going off the rails even more! The last chapter and this one! Amazing! The tension keeps going up! Mavos side was mostly recap of last chapter's peak conclusion(?) from a different perspective, but Edithe! I'm concerned and curious!

Litteraly just bought the book, and the chapter was posted :)

Sally going nuclear just what is that GS

Sally, you deserved better I’ll never forget you

First sentence " as he flew back through the small", "small hole"? The word is missing

Finally

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