Selling England By The Pound (Genesis) | Extended Play Lounge Ep. 47
Added 2023-07-04 20:56:12 +0000 UTCIt's great to get back to another full album listen to Genesis. This time, with Selling England By the Pound, I'm familiar with about half the album, but that didn't stop me from discovering many new things along the way. It's a wonderful album...perhaps my favorite by the band. I hope you enjoy as much as I did!
Comments
Thanks for the link - lots of very interesting points. The main point that comes home to me is the fact that 1973 was a low point in the UK's fortunes since the Second World War, and the album has to be understood against that background. The question then was how much of the identity of the UK was lost or being lost. The album asks the question in the first song, and the rest of the album tries to address the question.
Adie
2024-04-19 22:39:32 +0000 UTCNo-one appears to have referenced this essay on the album yet. Interested in everyone's thoughts (grab a cuppa, or a whisky, it's a long read!) http://www.donaghue.karoo.net/music/reviews/selling_england.html
Chris Pegman
2024-03-30 01:29:58 +0000 UTCOh what a pleasure this is! To go through this album compressed with English/UK-only references in the company of a sometimes bemused US music master. Just to address a couple of points: 1. Phil Collins did use to add his sound to Peter Gabriel's lead vocals on many occasions before this album, so the lead vocal sound of Genesis is often a blend (I believe). 2. Yes, Epping Forest is a real place in North London, and the song was based on a real event reported in the newspapers (I believe). BTW, the faut London accents bring to mind the Ealing Comedy films of the 1950s/60s, and the names remind of the south London gang names e.g. Jack 'the hat' McVitie 3. "Long bass pedal" was probably use of Moog Taurus bass pedals, which the band used to enable a richer arrangement at this time. 4. What is the meaning of the reprise, Aisle of Plenty? Key, to me, is the repeat of "half" at the end, which reflects the idea of diminution i.e. in the commercial noise, indicating wealth and progress, the reality is a loss of something more important. PS. Oh hell-o, is probably the double entendre of 'Oh Hell!" and 'Oh, hello', i.e. that the world is awful, but, in a Brit polite way, I will great you with a cheery hello. Again, Just MHO. This, to me, was the album when the Genesis alchemy turned to gold. The public school (private school to USA readers) boys found common ground with the lower class Steve and Phil, and lamented the fall of the nation while (or via) celebrating the heritage. This was the high point of the early Genesis for me, even though Lamb Lies Down On Boadway was clearly a progression from this point (just not as poetic and romantic). I also think being a Brit in the UK in this era gives the listener the key to the emotional flavor of this album. I imagine that would be very hard for others to digest. Wonderful revisit of this unique English album. Thanks Doug.
Adie
2024-02-20 23:42:46 +0000 UTCJust need to add the important England (UK?) only Green Shield Stamp where you bought an item, and got a whole load of stamps to paste into a book. When you had enough, you could go to the Green Shield Stamp shop nearest you, and use your stamp books as currency to buy non-food items. The whole thing (I think) smacked of the large State plus commerce, which would be a fair reflection of England in the 1970s. Of course the Co-Operative (or 'Co-Op') was, and is, the employee/customer-owned Co-Operative shop - commercial activity without the capitalism. So when 'Tess Co-Operates'' is she oppressed or does she take up her socialist freedom? The lyrics suggest the former i.e. that the socialism is just a mask. IMHO
Adie
2024-02-20 22:40:58 +0000 UTCTes co-operates is Tesco's supermarket, the same with Fine fare (Finefare) and Safe way (Safeway's) another 2 supermarkets, Peak Freams were biscuits
Steve Campbell
2023-11-01 16:44:58 +0000 UTCMy introduction to the prog of Genesis, during the trio MTV years…. A totally different band. Still my fave Genesis album, with Nursery Crime a close second… Lamb lost me…
Steve Hartke
2023-08-12 03:13:47 +0000 UTCalright, here's my two cents... Selling England by the pound is my most favorite album of Genesis. Closely followed by A Trick of a Tail. Thanks for this reaction Doug, you did a terriffic job.
Jan Michael
2023-07-08 23:09:19 +0000 UTCThere are some lovely passages in this album, and "I know what you like" and "More fool me" are lovely songs, but there's just too much thrown in. Less could have been more.
Dave Brockis
2023-07-08 20:31:42 +0000 UTCSo smart it’s just dazzlingly blinding, or like genesis put it, effortlessly glassing . . .
Ricardo Hector Jimenez Valdes
2023-07-08 16:56:43 +0000 UTCI see and perceive very clearly the Americana influence in Dr. D (d for Doug), when he very smartly identified the homeless lawnmower vagabond of I Know what I like, with a scenery designer landscaper, which is as we all are aware, the cultural equivalent and viceversa . . . Ha !
Ricardo Hector Jimenez Valdes
2023-07-08 16:54:21 +0000 UTCAn irony was that the original LP contained a lyric sheet with a photo of the group -- taken not in England, but in New York's Central Park.
Dave Cohen
2023-07-07 13:27:18 +0000 UTCThanks, Doug. Love this album. Still awaiting the Live at Carnegie Hall version of Ashes Are Burning by Renaissance. It has been a LOOOOONG time since you've done any Renaissance.
Dave Cohen
2023-07-07 12:08:13 +0000 UTC18 and just out of high school living with a couple of friends one of whom bought this album which was my introduction to Genesis. A little over my head at the time as I was immersed mainly in ELP and Yes and fascinated with all the new keyboard innovations of the time. Genesis had a subtlety I had to learn to appreciate. 50 years later still my favorite progressive rock album and Firth of Fifth their best song (despite some less than stellar lyrics) in my opinion. Regarding the denseness of Epping Forest, in the band members video interviews about all the albums in the remaster collection, they all commented on how Peter was writing separately while they were working on the music, and how disappointed they were to discover so many lyrics written over spots they assumed would be instrumental. They largely felt the same about the Lamb. Much of Selling England remains some of my favorite keyboard parts to play. I still never tire of hearing their catalog.
Howaard Hughes
2023-07-07 02:25:34 +0000 UTCI know this is Hackett’s favorite Genesis album, but the rest of the guys are kind of lukewarm on it. I look forward to when you do Wind and Wuthering in full, it’s my favorite Genesis LP.
Aidan Kost
2023-07-07 00:21:02 +0000 UTCI appreciate Doug's point about bands potentially 'one-upping' each other in this pivotal year of 1973. Ironically, at least one other album in the poll illustrates this point dramatically- ELP's self-titled debut album from 1971 consistently erred to the relatively simple and subdued; one of the reasons I love it so much. Yet in 1973 they were doing "Brain Salad Surgery", as much overkill as any prog band ever. Same with Yes' "Topographic Oceans". All wonderful, all way too much. 1973 was definitely peak prog, and obviously could not be sustained. And it wasn't.
Tom (the soggy one)
2023-07-06 02:41:37 +0000 UTCSo THAT'S why I've never been able to get my head around Epping Forest! I read this comment before getting to the song in the video, so this time I listened to just the instrumental- MUCH better! To me, anyway. Same thing I do with ELP's 'Pirates'- a full instrumental piece with singing and lyrics tacked on. Again, MY opinion.
Tom (the soggy one)
2023-07-06 01:58:20 +0000 UTCEpping Forest- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epping_Forest
Tom (the soggy one)
2023-07-06 01:42:39 +0000 UTCMy first Genesis album ever and what a heck of an album it is. Never get tired of it and never will
Juan Ignacio Quesada
2023-07-05 21:25:21 +0000 UTCMore to add to the Phil saga. He didn’t want to be a lead singer “standing out front shaking his bum”. He just wanted to be the drummer. Also, the rest of the band weren’t sure that Phil could handle the louder songs from the back catalog. It wasn’t until he sang “Squonk” (from what would be “A Trick of the Tail”) that they were all convinced he could do it. Phil’s playing on this album is remarkable. He shows a ton of technical expertise but there is also a lot of subtlety in his playing. Probably my favorite Phil drumming album.
Martin Broten
2023-07-05 19:55:07 +0000 UTCThis, for me, is the pinnacle of their achievements. It has two of the best songs they ever wrote (Firth Of Fifth, Cinema Show) but everything else is almost as rich and satisfying. More Fool Me showed their softer and more romantic side. The Battle Of Epping Forest is sheer fun, even as it threatens to overwhelm us with its wordplay and its quirky comic caricatures. Magnificent.
Nick
2023-07-05 12:01:37 +0000 UTCSpeaking as someone who lived in the UK at the time this was written and released, I don't think it was the creeping Americanisation that was perceived as the problem: rather the fact that our institutions were being sold off to the Arabs. Harrods, for example: where the upper classes shopped, was sold to Mohammed Al-Fayed.
Chris Ramsbottom
2023-07-05 10:48:07 +0000 UTCThanks, Doug. This truly is a landmark album. I'll go to my grave believing that "Firth of Fifth" represents a high-water mark in progressive music composition. The way the three themes are interwoven and given different treatments by different instruments, culminating in Steve's soaring solo is genius and inspiration combining to produce a genuine masterpiece. I've seen one interview where Tony Banks has very little good to say about this album, and it seems that the hurried nature of it didn't sit well at the time (and hadn't mellowed with the passage of time as of that interview). He said that he completely disliked "After the Ordeal" (because he wasn't involved in it, possibly?) and would rather it hadn't been included on the album. I think his playing on it is beautiful, but what do I know? Did you notice that the album art is based on "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)"? I think you're correct with your first take on the album--that they were bemoaning the fact that, more and more, other cultural influences (mostly American) were being co-opted by English culture. The final track is filled with puns, many of which were evident to an Anglophile in Ohio, even back then. The last part are sort of high-volume ads announcing various aspects of England being marked down to lower prices. It was fun to see you listen to this one, Doug. Thank you again! (Hope we get to Octopus someday.)
Bill Brinkmoeller
2023-07-05 07:09:37 +0000 UTCTogether with A Trick of the Tail my favorite Genesis album 👍 Nice to hear (and see) your reaction. That album also deserves an EPL treatment. In my honest opinion.
Frits van Voorst
2023-07-05 06:49:27 +0000 UTCRe: Phil doing more singing: When Peter left the band, at their height, after The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, Genesis decided to look for a new singer. They tried out nearly a hundred (?) singers BEFORE deciding that Phil would take over... So, Doug, it wasn't as obvious to them then as it is to you now...
DJ Marquis Marc Rambeau du Tacoma
2023-07-05 05:13:47 +0000 UTCDoug, speaking of the character in I Know What I Like at 19:49 "He seems, content, it seems, to live a simple life..." I couldn't help but remember reading a book by famous philosopher Bertrand Russell in his little book "The Conquest of Happiness" how he, Professor Russell, an English gentleman, if ever there was one, compared Lord Byron, and his interminable discontent and unhappiness, with Russell's own groundskeeper, where, he noted, the gentleman was perfectly happy keeping the gophers off of the property, and that's all he needed out of life. (Please, people, no Caddyshack Bill Murray references, I know all about it!). Bertrand Russell was making a very serious point, and as a matter of fact, it's about the only point in the book that I remember, as I haven't read it in 40+ years. But... here's Peter Gabriel making the same point, in a much more entertaining way.
DJ Marquis Marc Rambeau du Tacoma
2023-07-05 04:51:01 +0000 UTCMy favorite of all Genesis albums. (Their live "Seconds Out," the very first album by them that I heard when it was released in 1977, oh so many years ago now, and is, naturally, second on my list). Thanx Doug. Just what the Dr. ordered.
DJ Marquis Marc Rambeau du Tacoma
2023-07-05 04:35:50 +0000 UTCIf I recall from the interviews from the 2007 remixes, Tony said Epping Forest was meant to be an instrumental. The guys had or nearly had everything worked out already and then Peter showed up with all those lyrics. That makes that song’s density easier to understand, although I agree that it’s too much. That middle section’s interesting harmonies and Peter’s crazy story about The Reverend both get a little lost in the sauce. Onward to Wind and Wuthering someday!
Gary Thobaben
2023-07-05 03:09:15 +0000 UTCHey Steven - you're muscling in on my effort to get Dr. Doug to have the following four albums above and behind him (and he's 3/4 the way there!): Abbey Road Close To The Edge Dark Side of the Moon Physical Graffiti BUT - Dr. Doug doesn't like Plant's voice, although he seems to love LZ's rhythms, as well he should! I figure if he won't put Physical Graffiti in the coveted 4th position, then Who's Next should go there... Am I right, or, am I just correct?
DJ Marquis Marc Rambeau du Tacoma
2023-07-05 02:50:09 +0000 UTCI’ve been listening to this album since I was in 10th grade in 1974 and it’s never gotten old, only more familiar. My fav genesis album and it would be on my wall next to Abby road and close to the edge and 10 summoners tales (how about extended listening to that album!) Phil’s best drumming imo, great to watch the YouTube live versions
Steven Ravitz
2023-07-05 02:24:02 +0000 UTCWhen I first listened to this album back in 2014 I quickly became obsessed with the band. There was so much creativity and harmony in their music that it felt like finding the "Holy Grail" to me. The organic and evolving song structures , the chords , the soundscapes , Peter's incredibly charismatic singing and theatrical live presence , it all felt (and feels) magical in a way that no other band had to me. "Trespass" is a must at this point along with "A Trick Of The Tail" and "Wind & Wuthering". This is one of the few 10/10 albums for me , I adore every single track and never skip one. Thanks for the great reaction/analysis as always, not an easy one for sure.
Hetfield Ninno Davide
2023-07-05 00:55:45 +0000 UTCps. The album title apparently came from a Labour Party (US: think Saunders-ish lefty Democrats) poster or similar. You HAD to be in the UK in the early 1970s (as I was) to appreciate the context of this album and its title. Peter, Tony and Mike all hailed from upper middle-class families in Surrey, and (as in "Get 'em out by Friday") you see their opposition to the way UK society was heading. Unlike Phil and Steve, they never really experienced it first-hand, though.
Adrian Goodrich
2023-07-04 23:34:16 +0000 UTCYet another AWESOME EPL. Thank you sir!!!
Erik Martinez
2023-07-04 23:24:13 +0000 UTCAnd the Co-op! Fine Fare was the first supermarket in our town (Melton Mowbray). I suspect only us Brits of a certain age will get all the puns and plays on words? Like Green Shield stamps? I bought this album on vinyl a few weeks after it was released. Still have it, somewhere up in the eaves. Scary where the time in between has gone!
Adrian Goodrich
2023-07-04 23:23:23 +0000 UTCAs always, thoroughly enjoyed this, buddy! Its Genesis' "English" Album, and absolutely packed with puns and allusions and expressions that, tbh, only Brits, of a certain age, are likely to get in full. "Epping Forest" most especially (Yes, Epping Forest is real - woods and parkland in North-East London) but also very much the opening and closing tracks. As Dave Hendry said, "Aisle of Plenty" refers to supermarkets of the 1970s - and he missed the Co-Op ("Tess co-operates...") And "Knights of the Green Shield Stamp and shout..." in the opening track refers to "Green Shield" trading stamps that were widespread in the 1970s. We used to fill books with them and exchange them for goods at "Green Shield" stores. For younger Brits, "Green Shield" morphed into Argos. As for the music - this album has risen with my appreciation of Genesis (my favourite band) over the years and, like Doug, it may now be my favourite. What a SUPERB piece of work! I have seen both Steve Hackett and The Musical Box play all this album live. Both just fantastic. Thanks once again, Doug. Much my favourite music site, and great to see you clearly enjoying this masterpiece!
Adrian Goodrich
2023-07-04 23:06:24 +0000 UTCA great reaction for a great album, thanks Doug
Richard Elliott
2023-07-04 22:53:54 +0000 UTCFine Fare, Safeway & Tesco. All UK supermarkets 'back in the day'
David Hendry
2023-07-04 22:30:34 +0000 UTCI agree Peter. There’s some overwhelmingly profound musical moments in this album.
R. Douglas Helvering
2023-07-04 22:29:24 +0000 UTCOut of the (probably) thousands of albums I've listened to in probably 55 years of listening, this remains one of my three favorite by any group, anywhere. Parts of it, like the Taurus pedal entry and the choir pads in the solo section of Cinema Show, the other pedal entry (and the mellotron strings as the final verse starts) in 'Firth' *still* make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It's supremely melodic, harmonically rich, sonically gorgeous, beautifully orchestrated, bleak, eccentric, delicate, dark, illuminating, uplifting, triumphant...to me, it's everything wrapped up in some great playing and fascinating songcraft. I never get tired of it. Thanks, Doug, nice job as usual.
Peter Tutak
2023-07-04 21:25:55 +0000 UTCSo many examples of word play that may go undetected. A very British album
David Hendry
2023-07-04 21:22:28 +0000 UTCIt’s my favourite as well Doug! 👍🏻😁
Karl Stubsjoen
2023-07-04 21:14:13 +0000 UTCLooking forward to watching this reaction
Ruth James
2023-07-04 21:06:54 +0000 UTC
