PATREON EXCLUSIVE: Is There Ever A Path To Redemption After Infidelity?

I have to disagree somewhat with with this comment: “I think staying together for the kids would only be a burden to the kids if you TOLD them they were the only reason you were staying together.” Granted, a lot will depend on how the parents actually behave... and the kid(s) themselves - BUT, children are a lot more intuitive than adults give them credit for. Children see and internalize the behavior of their parents and even if they can’t articulate it - many can sense when things aren’t right and blame themselves. I was one such child who knew without being told and I know many others who knew as well. Of those I am close to, we all have strained relationships with our parents as a result - especially our mothers. When it comes to staying in a bad marriage or divorcing, no decision is without risk and what’s best for each family may vary - but those kids, sooner or later, WILL know - and by the time they consciously acknowledge it, the damage will likely have been done.

I don't think you can tackle the issue the same way for men and woman as we are wired differently. We have established women are hypergamous and men are polygamous therefore the source for cheating is different and since the reason is different the judgement has to be different and separated. You mention the sexual debt towards the end but you could have gone further with the overall instinct of men to reproduce, especially when your partner gets old vs young women. The TV show game of thrones actually translate that pretty well with the high status men satisfying their sexual desires at the brothel on the side (tyrion) of their wife and the women sleeping with men that they see of higher value (cersei)

I agree with Alexander that being in the early stages of a relationship vs married with kids is a major factor in whether or not cheating (or really any transgression) is forgivable. But I'm conflicted and have questions, even though I watched this multiple times. Disclosure: I was a serial cheater before I was married. I pretty much cheated on every boyfriend I ever had, even if it was just going out with another boy as a teen with no sex involved.  Out of the ones that knew about the cheating, every single one of them forgave me and took me back.  But I am now married with a kid and a decent life. I was also the 'other woman' with a married man once.  I've never been cheated on, that I know of.  So my perception could be skewed. Hopefully I make some sort of sense. I have always lived, and judged others, according to this credo: 1. Don't blame your spouse for your cheating, and dont blame the 3rd party you cheated with.  Your spouse should not blame the 3rd party either.  The only person to blame is you, the cheater. 2. Redemption doesn't come from being forgiven, or from your spouse becoming a better person, or from you promising to never do it again. You are only redeemed when you regain enough respect for your partner as a human being to sacrifice part of yourself for them over a long period of time.  Being suddenly faithful to them is not enough. That's where I started from, and this was my train of thought watching the video... Let's say I'm young and unwed without kids, have my own job and apartment, and my boyfriend cheats on me, it's easy to break up without much of a change in my life. But it's also easier to forgive him because nothing in my life HAD changed, except my feelings are now hurt. As long as there are no STDs involved, I might decide that my pride will recover, and therefore stay with him. If I'm married with kids, I might decide it's harder to leave because of all the things Alexander said around the 3 minute and 13 minute marks, which I thought he was completely accurate. But I might feel like I HAVE to leave him because that betrayal can put the kids at risk and THAT is what is unforgivable. (More on that below.) And if you're in a new relationship, how do you establish your boundaries about adultery when those boundaries might change as the relationship changes? I think my waffling got worse as the video went on because I had issues with a couple arguments Alexander used. Let's start with the question 'is cheating different/worse than other kinds of domestic abuse?' To help me answer that I used a hypothetical: man cheats on his wife and lies about it. Unbeknownst to him, the other woman has HIV. Now he has HIV.  He has sex with his wife.  Now she has HIV and still nobody knows.  She breastfeeds the baby. Now the baby has HIV because he decided his sex life was more important than the risk of an STD.  Sounds pretty unforgivable to me. Here's another example: woman cheats on her husband. The other man turns out to be a psycho who now stalks her and her family, including harassing her kids. He finally kills someone, and it all started because she decided her sex life was more important than the danger the stranger she met online might present.  Again, pretty undeserving of forgiveness or redemption. At this point I am at the conclusion that sexual betrayal within a marriage with kids IS worse than sexual betrayal outside of marriage or kids. But what if those bad things DON'T happen? Is it a case of no harm no foul, and that's what determines if the cheater should be forgiven? Like, if you're empty nesters and it's a sexless relationship anyway, what do you care if your spouse cheats? Onto the issue of staying together for the children. Next disclosure: I am a feminist. It's relevant because 2nd and 3rd wave feminist advice is to get rid of a man the first time he disrespects you. One of the justifications we were told is that, by doing this, the woman is sending a message to her children that letting a man disrespect her is not to be tolerated, regardless of her behavior. It's considered a good thing, because women are deserving of respect in all cases and in the case of domestic abuse, we certainly don't want a battered woman to stay in the relationship just for the kids. That is the training I received and I know women who have followed these instructions and left their baby daddies as soon as life got hard, even though it was absent of abuse. This had the side effect of teaching the children the following: - A mother's pride/ego is the most important thing in the family. - The mom should never be expected to compromise. - It's better that the kids be separated from the dad rather than the mom make a personal sacrifice (domestic abuse aside) to keep the family unit together. That's what I learned by watching other feminists. So back to the video... Alexander said staying together for the kids is putting the responsibilty for the bad marriage on the children. I think staying together for the kids would only be a burden to the kids if you TOLD them they were the only reason you were staying together: 'If it wasn't for you kids I'd divorce him in a heartbeat and then I'd be happy and free again!' That would certainly give them baggage. For me, after getting married and having a baby, I went against feminist advice and decided to stay married through a rough patch instead of divorcing at the first sign of trouble. I did this to keep my kid's life stable, spend more time with my kid than I might get after a divorce, and my kid loves daddy to death so why break that relationship apart just because I was the only one unhappy? I don't feel like my working through that and coming out a better person was me laying anything at my kid's door.  It did make ME feel more responsible, TO my kid. And when kid is old enough to understand, THEN I will explain and hopefully it will demonstrate to them the value of things like loyalty, sacrifice, dedication, and commitment. People who divorce over infidelity do so for their own sake. They are thinking about what's best for themselves, not for the kid.  Imagine describing that out loud: 'I know you love your daddy but MY feelings are hurt and that's why YOU can't see your daddy anymore'. To me that feels like laying baggage at the kid's feet. Maybe the sin is not in the reason for the decision to stay or go, but it's when parents articulate to the kid about the other's bad behavior that they feel is causing them to have to make the decision in the first place? Alexander talked about a possible positive outcome of cheating: that it can make you appreciate your spouse more.  He described a feeling of 'what did I do?!' and earlier in the video talked about how the cheater just made a mistake. But in my experience, cheating is a cold, calculated act that requires the intentional dismissing of the spouse and of the consequences. There's no 'what did I do' because you knew in advance that you were going to do it. Even the first time, you can see it on the horizon.  There are numerous opportunities before and during the sexual encounter to change your mind. But, a cheater must deliberately disregard those red flags one by one in order to get what they want out of the encounter, because NOT getting what you want would be unacceptable.  Afterward, you hide the evidence and hope you don't get caught.  That's not a mistake, it's a series of conscious decisions made with the intent to break your promise to your partner. And anyone who thinks 'I only cheated once so it's forgivable because now I'm going to appreciate my spouse more' is rationalizing in order to make themselves feel better.

Jennifer Coopman

What is the link to the video you are talking about please?

Maybe some people can repair their relationship after infidelity. Personally, I can't ever picture myself wanting to continue the relationship if I've been cheated on. If children are involved, that will complicate things. In my experience, staying together for the sake of children doesn't work out well.

Ken Schafer

I agree with this video. I do believe in redemption after cheating depending on the reason for cheating. That doesn't mean that the person who was cheated on has to take them back. If both people in the relationship want to make it work and move past the cheating it will be difficult. I think a big problem in society is that when people feel temptation they are shamed for their feelings. If you feel a spark with someone else other than your partner it can be a very lonely and confusing experience to navigate and this can make you feel like a bad person which could even add to the problem of increasing the chances of infidelity because a person who feels like a bad person is more likely to carry guilt and then engage in self sabotaging behaviour (cheating).

Alisha

First of all, you can’t justify infidelity based on other issues. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And you cannot fix a relationship by stepping out of it. All you will do is further damage it. Yes, it is possible to recover from infidelity. But only 16% of cases do recover. The problems are: - The wayward partner has often “checked-out” of the relationship. Once discovered, they may not be truly remorseful and willing to make up. Instead, they may be in love with the Affair Partner and prefer to “monkey branch”. - Many cheaters are narcissistic, devoid of empathy, and they are either unwilling or unable to repair the relationship. - The betrayed partner may not be able to forgive the wayward partner. The betrayal may cut too deeply. The relationship may never seem the same again. - Loss of identity. If you discover your partner was living a double life, pulling the wool over your eyes, it feels like your relationship was based on a lie. Who is this person you thought loved you? - Loss of trust. If you become paranoid about where your partner is, who they are with, what are they doing, it’s mentally exhausting and stressful. - Lack of closure. Did your partner tell you everything? Have they had any other affairs? You just do not know what to believe anymore. - If your partner still has contact with the AP (e.g. they still work together) it is difficult to believe they will maintain boundaries. - The inevitable disconnect after the affair has been uncovered may lead to the wayward spouse giving-up completely. - The trauma can lead to anxiety and depression for either, or both, partners.

Andy MacLeod

There's quite a bit of difference between men and women due to the threat to men of getting cuckolded. For a woman, being cheated on is an affront to her sense of self as a human being, yet as a woman it can elevate attraction in terms preselection. For men, it is an affront to their sense of self as a human being and as a man whose paternity is potentially threatened. It can lower men's attraction to the point of revulsion. If my desire for the person were to possibly remain, the only way I could envision getting past it would be to divorce or break up and then start completely over with a new first date and with a casual relationship. If it progresses, fine. Let her compete for me once again with everyone else and then we'll see how she does.

Todd McDaniels

I do not 100% agree

Same here XD

Ashwin Srinivas

This is a good and exhaustive analysis looking at it from all angles. I guess it just goes to show that there really isn't any black and white answer in most cases. Indeed, "All is fair is love and war". This is honestly another HUGE plus point of your channel and content in that it acknowledges the overarching directives given by society for most situations but also takes a nuanced approach to analyze things and even propose a contradicting directive. Giving into emotions and social pressure is easy but I wonder how many people can actually think it out in the valid ways you have put forth. Keep it up AG!!!

Ashwin Srinivas

Appreciate your nuanced take on this. You raised a lot of good points. My answer to that question is still the same. Its never worth the effort to repair a relationship destroyed by infidelity than it is to start anew with another person. I would consider the first two questions you posed but then would always resort to answering “no” to your third question, “Is this something you really want to do?” As you stated, life is short and you can’t waste time on someone who is going to do something to jeopardize what you built together as partners. Trust and compassion are both relationship building blocks and without those, the house falls down. To your point on the demonization of cheaters by our culture, I agree that people tend to “shun” the cheater. I would add though that if you are the one being cheated on, the situation may not be your fault, but it is your responsibility. You have the responsibility to get yourself out of a bad situation and get yourself in a place where you are being treated fairly. No one else is going to do that for you, that’s on you. You have to stick up for yourself. I hear a lot of people talk about “frame” and how important it is in a relationship. The one way to guarantee that you will never have frame in a relationship is to accept a cheater back into your world. They aren’t going to respect you for letting them back into your life, they’re going to see you as pathetic. You can’t stand up for yourself when you are being treated unfairly, then why are they going to feel respect for you over pity? It doesn’t make sense. A close female relative of mine went through this a lot. She’s been sexually assaulted and cheated on more than once. One occurrence happened between her best friend and her now ex. But each time, she made the decision to leave and/or file charges of assault occurred. It wasn’t fair that it happened to her, but she was accountable for her actions and now, she’s in a 23-year happily-married situation. I think your framework is helpful to understand what process is out there for people who want to salvage their relationship via infidelity. I would personally never take that route as it is a waste of my time. I can’t see the benefit to getting back together with someone who doesn’t have it figured out like that.

Kyle Worden

Haven’t watched the video yet. Short answer: No. Now I’ll watch the video, lol

Kyle Worden