Bonfireside Chat 278: Elphael, Brace of the Haligtree (Part 2)
Added 2023-09-10 23:50:12 +0000 UTCAh. Melania. Funny running into you here.
Comments
I do think that fromsoft has sometimes refrained from adding explicit “reason” to fighting/defeating their hard optional bosses. In recent interviews about the dlc, they have said that they have added optional bosses in line with the difficulty of Malenia “for their hardcore fans.” This tells me that they are there (as fights) to appease the desire for extreme challenge. Which Malenia does do very well. But hardcore doesn’t have to just mean hardcore challenge gamer. It could also mean hardcore lore fiend. There is plenty of lore around Malenia, perhaps it is entirely up to the tarnished to rationalize why you want to fight/defeat her. Perhaps your goal is to bring about the third bloom and allow her to become a god. Or.. there is a lot of stuff in this game that tries to convince you that the tarnished is not destined or deserving to become elden lord (Morgott mostly hahaha). Defeating malenia gives you dialogue that validates that quest. Noting that not all endings result with the tarnished becoming elden lord. Perhaps if it is your personal goal to achieve an elden lord ending, you’ll want a character in the game to validate that in a meaningful way, which malenia does Edit: I do agree, having a meaningful alternative to fighting her would deepen the experience. She is optional anyway. Adding that option in could also give fighting her more meaning. That would break fromsoft’s modus operandi though.. unless you consider the ceaseless discharge cheese to be design intended
Michael Neighbour
2024-06-11 03:53:15 +0000 UTCFor waterfowl, I have a couple of different theories about when it triggers. It’s either a 20/40/60/80 health % split. That was my experience when I first fought her. My other theory is that it depends on how much stance damage you’re doing to her. For example, every single time (quite literally 100% I’m fairly certain) I’ve staggered (edit: I mean stance broken) her, she water fowls. It could also have combined logic paths that determine the probability of the attack occurring. For example, when you get a real intuition of when she’s about to do it in her first phase, you can kind of hang back and you’ll just stare at each other indefinitely. If you start walking to her, there is a chance that she’ll use the weapon skill. Which tells me it is also a positional thing. I found it great, I enjoyed learning how to deal with it more than Friede’s jump invisibility attacks
Michael Neighbour
2024-06-11 03:20:04 +0000 UTCAh. Melania. Funny running into you here. …sorry, wrong door
Tala Maillot
2024-06-04 13:57:27 +0000 UTCnot kole dropping best ever death metal band out of denton lyrics about millicent
Ember Grey
2024-02-29 18:35:01 +0000 UTCCleanrot Knights are regular enemies in The Shaded Castle for what it’s worth.
Aaron Hedick
2023-11-11 11:05:15 +0000 UTCI'm guessing you figured out the patreon tier thing? 😂
dumbcube
2023-09-15 19:35:53 +0000 UTCI mean…the last time I fought her it was because I really wanted her helmet for my sorceress character. The bling is the thing that trumps the Elden Ring.
Erik Heard
2023-09-12 22:48:33 +0000 UTCAnd another: bsky-social-ltwvp-defna
Richard Cochnar
2023-09-12 22:11:26 +0000 UTCBluesky invite code: bsky-social-xwn33-zydtj
Richard Cochnar
2023-09-12 22:10:12 +0000 UTCTaking away the healing factor was the exact solution I had in my head for naming Melania “fine” as opposed to overtuned. Even just having the healing in the second phase or just as part of a specific move would be more bearable. As someone who has almost exclusively played through all the soulsborne games co-op with my friends, I just don’t have any of the competitive need to solo bosses in me. Got nothing to prove to anyone.
MIKEISTKRIEG
2023-09-12 22:03:55 +0000 UTCTotally see what you’re saying. To be honest, the first little paragraph of my original post was just a YouTube clickbait title way of saying my point. LOL. I don’t think I’m actually reading the developer’s minds or anything. But yeah Malenia is unique in that a summon could wind up making her a harder fight if you’re letting her siphon more healing from your summon than the damage you+summon are dealing to her. So I think you’re totally right, this fight is not actually THE thesis for fromsoft wanting us to use summons specifically. I guess my point was just that to me, fromsoft giving us bosses like this one (as well as many other examples), as the player it feels like we are intended to use tools such as summons or buffs or powerful weapons that are at our disposal, they aren’t just crutches for people who aren’t good enough at the game. I still feel like Malenia is a prime example of the game getting that across even if summons don’t specifically apply to her fight.
Austin Mathis
2023-09-12 19:02:38 +0000 UTCPossible, but personally I don't think she's saying anything about summoning one way or the other. Summons can make it easier if you coordinate well, but they can also make it harder because she'll be doing life steal on multiple players (or ash) and recovering more health. If your summoned player or ash gets hit a lot you are better off without them in this case. Even using them to draw aggro isn't worth it if all your damage is negated.
Screwball Johnson
2023-09-12 17:51:17 +0000 UTCSide note just for those reading: I can get behind any OG dark souls player treating the entirety of Elden Ring with the same bare bones strategic and mechanical grit that they’ve been sharpening since the robot boar in the undead parish. And I can imagine that for some of those folks, this has always been the “intended” gauntlet that the game devs throw down with every release. For them, to use more convenient strats would feel empty. But if you don’t realize this delineation begins and ends within the individual player’s own heart, it turns toxic. Using the powerful weapons that you obtain as your enemies scale in difficulty is not how you “miss out” on this game. I would worry more that somebody who refers to Malenia as “bitch” and can’t get over that she’s naked is the one who is missing something about a fromsoft game.
Austin Mathis
2023-09-12 17:35:12 +0000 UTCThis is one of those things that "For I am a warrior always looking for the greatest challenge" bugs me with. It's such a boring motive and it elides a lot of interesting alternatives. -GB
Duckfeed.tv
2023-09-12 17:10:03 +0000 UTCI think Malenia is this game’s REJECTION of “you have to beat the game summonlessly and cheeselessly to be a tRuE gAmErrr” First, I will say that I am a lover of hard bosses, of games that present something seemingly impossible and ask for endless hours of attempts. I will keep reiterating far past the point of most people I know. I still used Blasphemous Blade and mimic tear ashes to beat Malenia. At this point in a late game boss rush, possibly 100 hours into your first run, is it REALLY all about dying to rot a million times until you can solo her?? No. Plus, I believe that regardless of what tactics or resources you may take advantage of, if you beat Elden Ring you have an enormous tolerance for countless defeats and strategic, adaptive gameplay. There’s no point in gatekeeping play styles for a game that is such a distinct experience no matter how you get through it. The way I see it, Malenia was unfortunate enough to be visited by the up and coming Elden Lord, an absolute bane of Demi-gods everywhere, wielding Rykard’s legendary Blasphemous Blade and ringing a bell to summon a lesser mimic spirit. In the end, she was brought down by the hideous power of the Taker’s Flames, when really all she had to do was focus the add and take it out as quickly as possible, then roll to the right whenever the weapon art was used and punish the long animation times. But she just wasn’t a good enough gamer.
Austin Mathis
2023-09-12 14:54:40 +0000 UTCI think this is as simple as the mandate given by the Two Fingers from the beginning regarding the runebearers who perpetrated the Shattering which was essentially “Kill them all.” You’re there to put her down, that’s it.
Erik Heard
2023-09-12 12:20:19 +0000 UTCGary brought up a great point that has come up often with more recent Souls bosses for me. The WHY of fighting a boss is important, simply doing it for the challenge isn't as rewarding for me. Malenia is broken, emotionally and physically drained, lamenting the loss of who she holds most dear... Why the hell is she giving me props for beating her like we just played a game of pick-up basketball? They had the opportunity to pull something akin to a Priscilla here: want to fight this super cool boss? Fine, but you have to make the choice to be a real piece of shit. Maybe even have helping Gowry grant you an advantage against Malenia to make the choice more meaningful.
Mansoor
2023-09-12 05:51:38 +0000 UTCI though you guys were going to hate Malenia… glad you liked her!
Mitchell Turner
2023-09-11 21:33:14 +0000 UTCI’ve fought Malenia without the heal mechanic in randomizers. For most fights it felt like a very minor difference relative to normal, the sheer damage potential of waterfowl remained the larger problem. On the flip side, the pain from her healing during a randomizer is extremely heightened if she replaces Radahn. She gobbles the HP of those summons so well that it’s legitimately easier to go in alone. It lines up with fighting her normally, I found the heal mechanic was a larger issue when using spirit summons since they suck at dodging for the most part
Lucas West
2023-09-11 20:19:48 +0000 UTCJeez what a bummer. Why do people SUCK SO HARD.
EzekialJeans
2023-09-11 20:12:38 +0000 UTCThis is really shitty and the kind of thing that needs to be confronted. I am quite sure most Souls and FromSoft fans are not like these toxic individuals who are the worst sort of losers. We need to confront them, block them, and urge others to do so.
Erik Heard
2023-09-11 14:36:12 +0000 UTCI left it off my response, but it was his video that got me to try her in the first place (and actually got me to play Sekiro, by extension).
Lucy
2023-09-11 14:06:55 +0000 UTCHe’s still making YouTube videos but he said on Twitter he’s leaving there because of annoying FromSoft fans and has deleted almost all of his tweets
Peter O'Donnell
2023-09-11 14:03:43 +0000 UTCNoah Caldwell-Gervais got bullied off the internet by the Souls community? If you don’t mind me asking, where did you see this? I really hope that’s not true.
Oliver Tripp
2023-09-11 07:39:21 +0000 UTCI actually really liked the Millicent plot line in this. She was like an anti-bloodborne character where she went all the way to find out the maddening truth only to go “seems like the optimal move here is to kill myself”.
Mortiis
2023-09-11 00:06:51 +0000 UTC
