AD-FREE PODCAST - Revisiting the Josh Duggar verdict; insights into Shiny Happy People
Added 2023-06-07 12:40:51 +0000 UTCGems,
Have any of you watched Shiny Happy People on Prime? This is Lauren, I'm in Miami and just finished. It touched on numerous things a guest on our show discussed with me at the end of 2021, when Josh Duggar's guilty verdict came down. Shellie brings up Bill Gothard and IBLP- two main subjects in the film. We wanted to revisit the episode.
There are ZERO spoilers in this episode. It was recorded prior to the documentary, so if you haven't yet watched, this is a good place to start!
John and I want to talk about the documentary soon, and hope to have Shellie back with us. In this ad-free podcast she shares her hope that the verdict would mean more victims find the bravery to share their stories. Shiny Happy People does just that.
Would love your thoughts and questions.
-Lauren
Comments
That is frightening to hear. Thank you so much for posting a little hear about what you know from personal experience.
Karen Rose
2023-07-02 18:03:30 +0000 UTCI hear where this guest is coming from, I hear her fire and righteous anger about Anna. But... it's not as simple as "you're an adult now, do better." There's more nuance to the control on adults within IBLP. I think of the Turpin children... do we blame the adult children, older than the one who broke out and made a report, for not doing that work first? Physically chains and psychological chains are not so different in levels of control such as are present in this cult. There's a lot that gets lost in nailing down rigid lines about what Anna "should know better than" and what gets lost is very important stuff to try to understand in order to learn how to avoid these tragedies and how to help people get out. I got out. It shattered me and was not without deep conflict. It wasn't because I pulled myself up by my boot straps. I heard a lot of victim blaming toward Anna which I don't see as incredibly helpful to understanding the psychology of this mess. To be clear, I do not believe that Anna is not accountable for her duty to protect her children. I'm not suggesting absolution of her role in supporting Josh. But it is remarkably cold to conclude that her fight/flight/flee/appease response is calculated and greedy. I cringed when I heard, "Anna knows what she's doing... she locked him down. " eek. If you've been in those trenches, you know women who stay have amputated their self-determination or never grew it to begin with. If she had the savviness necessary to use her reproduction as armor, she'd likely also possess the skills to just get the hell out. Again, never thought I'd find myself defending Anna, but it's more about resisting the urge to turn our mama bear anger at someone whose experiences this guest has not shared. And neither have I, exactly. But a more generous assumption could be made than that Anna is devious and "knows what she's doing. "
Bethany Davey
2023-06-26 06:32:41 +0000 UTCI grew up in IBLP, my bio father was the director of IT from 1987-1995 and we lived on headquarters for those years as well. There is so so much to iblp that couldn't be fit into 4 hours but the doc did a good job of highlighting the control nature of the group. That being said, no one who grew up in IBLP, and especially anyone who grew up at headquarters or was very closely connected to the organization in service of it was in any way surprised by Josh's sexual abuse. It was not only common to the extent it was nearly expected, it was accepted. IBLP published literature about how to handle brothers who molest sisters. So imagine what they taught that wasn't safe for mass publishing?
Bethany Davey
2023-06-26 06:16:38 +0000 UTCEach state has different requirements for home school. In my state of Indiana, there are no requirements past keeping attendance, 180 days of school, all conducted in English, and equivalent to public school instruction. There are no checks. Students are not required to take standardized tests. Curriculum and state standards used for public schools are difficult to formulate, ever-changing, and influenced more by legislatures and political alliances than by educators in many cases. As a college teacher, I had many well-educated home-schooled students and probably did not see too many from home schools where isolation and lack of basic and appropriate education were the norm. The latter types are about control, not about education, although I believe many well-meaning people have been convinced through coercion and fear to "protect" their children in this way. Whatever the answers are, they are not simple. We lack a cohesive vision of the future of our economy and civil society and therefore what constitutes a good education. As usual, it comes down to what and whom we value. Who controls education controls the fate of the country and the future. Too many well-funded and well-organized nefarious actors knew long ago that dismantling the public education system and producing fewer people with good critical thinking skills was an excellent recipe for making it easier to manipulate people. I found the documentary heartbreaking and frightening, given the political power their money buys.
Elizabeth Nesbitt
2023-06-14 02:16:24 +0000 UTCI never watched the Duggers and have no interest in them, so won't comment on that sad family.
TN Barb
2023-06-10 07:24:34 +0000 UTCI don't respect this guest's opinion. She sounds bitter and with a personal bone to pick. I don't believe she is the authority she attempts to present herself to be. The southern Baptist Convention is not patt of the American Baptists, nor are the Independents. I suggest that you remove her until you check her out more.
TN Barb
2023-06-10 07:23:28 +0000 UTCThanks for posting this. I am only learning of them now, with the Netflix show. I never watched their show as such things as conservative Christian huge family reality shoes repel me more than anything. Reading this is interesting, though unsurprising. Such predictable claptrap. ~ Cheers!
René Vistillas Alcalá
2023-06-09 06:21:55 +0000 UTCPlease. Don’t worry when you can’t. I appreciate when you can.
Maria David MAD
2023-06-08 20:43:56 +0000 UTCThank you for sharing this comment
Lauren and John Matthias
2023-06-07 22:44:08 +0000 UTCPlease do more episodes on this topic. I never watched the T.L.C. show because I thought they were exploiting their children. I was shocked to find out the children got no money. I thought there were laws requiring children to be paid for tv and have trust funds set up. But I live in CA. I always found the family to be controlling. Homeschooling worries me too. There should be required curriculum for home schooled students. So that they receive a decent education.
Chris Brooks
2023-06-07 20:05:49 +0000 UTCThe line that really sticks with me is when someone said something about how she didn't see obedient children, she saw a room full of broken spirits.
TootsPoots
2023-06-07 18:26:20 +0000 UTCThank you so much for this interview. It was very enlightening. I watched Shiny Happy People and was so sad for everyone caught up in this cult. I have lived in the same city as the Duggars since 1996, so I have known of them a long time and frequently see them when I’m out. Years ago they were just thought of as the huge strange family dressed alike and showed up at events. But seeing the documentary and hearing your interview gives me a better understanding of how dangerous this movement is. Episode 4 of Shiny Happy People was especially frightening because it showed how these people are trying to influence our government. Mike Huckabee (seen defending Josh after the porn charges in the documentary) is a former governor of my state. His daughter is our current governor, whose main objective is to take tax money from our public schools and give it to home schoolers and private schools, where they can teach anything they want. Several of the Duggar sons have run for various offices in our local government. The entire thing is upsetting and my heart breaks for all the little girls who grew up in this cult.
Jennifer Carter
2023-06-07 18:09:39 +0000 UTCI'll be listening to your episode and then watching the show. Yes, I'm interested!
Katie Alosi
2023-06-07 17:06:59 +0000 UTCThank you for revisiting. I’m listening to your pods from 2021 now about Josh. I’ll be watching Shiny Happy People in prep for your discussion. Thank you for your work.
Missy Roberts
2023-06-07 16:31:43 +0000 UTCI loved her final words. I hadn’t listened to this one in the past.
Valorie Dodart
2023-06-07 15:37:42 +0000 UTCI am very interested in the Duggar family, esp. Josh's situation.
shanna david
2023-06-07 15:34:31 +0000 UTCResponse from Jim Bob and Michelle of the documentary. Makes me so mad lol. “The recent ‘documentary’ that talks about our family is sad because in it we see the media and those with ill intentions hurting people we love,” the Duggars wrote on their website. “Like other families, ours too has experienced the joys and heartbreaks of life, just in a very public format. This ‘documentary’ paints so much and so many in a derogatory and sensationalized way because sadly that’s the direction of entertainment these days. “We have always believed that the best chance to repair damaged relationships, or to reconcile differences, is through love in a private setting,” they continued. “We love every member of our family and will continue to do all we can to have a good relationship with each one. Through both the triumphs and the trials we have clung to our faith all the more and discovered that through the love and grace of Jesus, we find strength, comfort and purpose.”
Edie Miller
2023-06-07 15:31:57 +0000 UTCHaven't watched it yet. Watched trailer sad
Susan L Carstens
2023-06-07 15:27:20 +0000 UTCI hate to mention it but what bothers me is that Jim Bob’s church knew of the abuse. He made all of that money from the show. I’m curious to know how much the church made from tithe knowing it was money made from their abuse. It was said he made about $18 million from the show and not a single cent went to the kids.
Edie Miller
2023-06-07 15:25:54 +0000 UTCI haven’t seen it but it’s sad seeing the horrible comments left on Jill’s Instagram page. Examples would be “how could you do this to your family” and that she’s profiting lol. I’m sorry what? She’s allowed to tell her story. Her dad made money off of her birth in the hospital when she didn’t want it filmed at all. Here she gets to finally consent to what projects she wants to be a part of. She got her power back 🫶🏼
Edie Miller
2023-06-07 15:21:51 +0000 UTCI follow Crystal Paine @moneysavingmom . She and her husband were raised in this cult and now are out of it. They continue to be active in a Christian church in Nashville. She has made some interesting comments and is going to put up a podcast about it. Sorry if I'm violating the commenting protocol by posting another person's hashtag, but I think it might be really interesting to you.
Lisa
2023-06-07 12:50:20 +0000 UTC
