Leslie Van Houton, Charles Manson follower, released from prison
Added 2023-07-28 07:01:23 +0000 UTCMany patreons have written us and asked Dr John's opinion. He shares it in this unedited, Patreon-only episode recorded at our dinner table.
Comments
I wonder what Dr. John thinks of the doctors who released Ed Kemper after he murdered his grandchildren. Has he ever experienced a subject that could have duped the doctors evaluating him?
Paul Maher Jr
2024-11-16 21:30:20 +0000 UTCMy husband's best friend in the 5th and 6th grade was David Van Houten, Leslie's young adopted brother. He spent the night at her at her house down south of LA and the Manson van was parked in the driveway. He remembered potbplants on the patio. He really enjoyed their whole family. Ry's mom saw Leslie on TV when she was charged and just started screaming. My understanding was that they made her stand lookout on the La Biancas and stab after they were dead so she was still an accomplice but I guess that's incorrect. Thank you for the breakdown. We have been following her case.
Theresa Wells
2024-03-17 17:09:37 +0000 UTCI am a couple of years older than Van Houton, so I was around in the dark ages that you find so unimaginably backwards (eg., "Manson girls"). Here's my "big question." Do the LaBiancas get to have parole from being dead? Brutally and unimaginably murdered by utter strangers, crazy home invaders. No? Then, parole for Leslie? No.
goldie lion
2023-09-11 16:37:12 +0000 UTCGreat question- I guess it would depend upon California's legal statues on this issue, which have changed over the years. This is known as the Son of Sam law, which restricts felons from receiving royalties from their stories in many states.
Lauren and John Matthias
2023-08-03 21:48:54 +0000 UTCGood points Paige- the lack of any meaningful social support network (aside from the state parole system, which is limited) becomes a very real and significant risk factor in this situation. Hopefully she can develop some friendships in the community, which would provide some indication that her rehabilitation in prison had been successful. Time will tell. Thanks, John
Lauren and John Matthias
2023-08-03 21:44:57 +0000 UTCGreat thought- "The victims never get to be released from their prison of grief and loss." Nor, I should add, do the murder victims get to have their lives back. These types of decisions are always complicated and involve many tradeoffs. There are never simple answers or solutions in such cases. Thanks, John
Lauren and John Matthias
2023-08-03 21:41:10 +0000 UTCSo true, but sometimes it can be intellectually and emotionally difficult to separate these two elements that become so intertwined with most crimes and their punishments.
Lauren and John Matthias
2023-08-03 21:37:19 +0000 UTC*Psychology . Darn spell check!
Catharine Knowles
2023-08-02 06:06:21 +0000 UTCThank you so much! I read Helter Skelter in elementary school and did research throughout my life (I'm 58 so we had no internet then..lol) I also subscribed to physiology today in 6th grade and completely agree with you. I always appreciate your careful, fact based conclusions. What an awesome team! Love you both!!
Catharine Knowles
2023-08-02 06:04:57 +0000 UTCI think Manson was born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome apparently he had problems as a very small child
@Teejay
2023-07-30 08:51:17 +0000 UTCNews reports indicated that she will apply to be a college professor. Rehabilitation is juxtaposed with justice. John said children weren’t involved What about viable baby Tate. True that Leslie didn’t help kill the unborn child but those of us who watched the Manson trial coverage are conflicted about release of any of the hands on participants.
Melanie Meadows
2023-07-29 17:17:45 +0000 UTCAnd for punishment
@Teejay
2023-07-29 07:51:37 +0000 UTCYea, I followed this case some too. Wow!
Sue Maxwell
2023-07-29 05:47:42 +0000 UTC53 years is most of her life. If she’s considered to be no threat, I see no reason not to release her. She’s not going to be accepted well into society, so I think her life will be sad out of prison as well. If she has remorse, she probably beats herself up daily about the path she took. So I think she’ll likely live her life out quietly and alone. Her only hope for any happiness in my humble opinion, is to give back somehow. Maybe she can do interviews etc and we can learn from her. I think we’re shocked because we just don’t see criminals that commit such horrific crimes redeem themselves. Is it even possible we ask ourselves? Look forward to Monday and the sentencing of Lori. When is Chad’s trail?
Sue Maxwell
2023-07-29 05:45:01 +0000 UTCI would like to see her in an interview. If she’d be forthcoming and honest, we could learn from her.
Sue Maxwell
2023-07-29 05:28:25 +0000 UTCThis was my first true crime I followed very closely. Enjoyed this podcast. Thank you.
Debi Biggs
2023-07-29 03:05:06 +0000 UTCI really appreciate hearing the forensic psychologist perspective on this criminal. I was introduced to true crime reading Helter Skelter in 6th or 7th grade and admit to having a visceral reaction that we are letting anyone from the Manson Family be released and it will forever be hard for me to swallow, but she’s been fully assessed and hopefully will remain a low risk to the community. Good luck to Lauren on getting a seat on Monday!! ❤️
Chena M
2023-07-28 21:24:47 +0000 UTCLooking forward to more snacks in the future!
TootsPoots
2023-07-28 20:52:51 +0000 UTCThank you for this “snack”. But I think it was more of a light supper. My sister in law was murdered by her husband whom she was divorcing. This happened before I met my husband but once we were married I went to a lot of the creeps parole hearings. Luckily we had a large family and kept him behind bars for as long as we could. Although I didn’t vote for Arnold for our governor I will always be grateful at one point he rejected the parole boards decision to release him. The creep never showed remorse. His story kept changing at every parole hearing. He only got murder in the second because the district attorney said “it’s just his wife. We will never get first degree” even though the creep was captured with $70,000 in cash, multiple fake passports. My sister in law Eileen was his second wife. He married his third wife behind bars and he abused her in a conjugal visit. We always felt he wouldn’t be a danger to society but definitely a danger to the next woman in a relationship with him. It’s so complicated. I wish he hadn’t been released. And if I was a relative of someone Leslie murdered I wouldn’t want her out either. The victims never get to be released from their prisons of grief and loss. (But I always love listening to Dr John erudite and clear explanations)
Alicia Walker
2023-07-28 19:25:14 +0000 UTCPrison is for people that are dangerous, not people we’re angry with.
Valorie Dodart
2023-07-28 16:20:28 +0000 UTCLori is in Idaho, I don't think Idaho is as woke as CA. Also, she has a pending murder trial in AZ and she's only going out of prison in double chains and surrounded by COs who will catch her when she falls off her shower shoes.
Carla Perkins
2023-07-28 15:37:55 +0000 UTCI think her release is going to be fine. Back in the day, drugs and hippie cults were common. Criminality was common. Age and positive prison programming would make her safer to be around us all. I wish her the best and I believe she can find her way. Hope she has people out there that will help, house, employ her. Regarding her ability to navigate the world, there will be lots of support from the system. What surprises me is that they released someone who had multiple murders under her belt. Which is probably why she's been in so long. Regarding Lori.... I believe her criminality was successfully hidden for most of her life. She should have known better than to kill people. Van Houten was heavily influenced by everyone around her and she was caught early.
Carla Perkins
2023-07-28 15:11:54 +0000 UTCI’m not a fan of this woman, but a bunch of people from the Manson Family have been walking around outside of jail for many years. Look up Lynette Squeaky Fromme. Just a few of them were involved in the murders. Some were innocent and didn’t know about it, and some were involved in other stuff.
Emily Lou
2023-07-28 14:18:39 +0000 UTCI would recommend everyone who is interested in knowing about the Manson family to read both Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi, the prosecutor and A Member of the Family by Diane Lake, a woman who was 16 when the family was arrested and 14 when taken in by the family.
Emily Lou
2023-07-28 14:15:56 +0000 UTCI’d also like to hear the good doctor’s opinion on the sanity of Taylor Schabusiness. I watched the trial and she seemed sane to me and the jury agreed. I just find it hard to believe a sane person would commit and find delight in such horrendous acts. Thanks for bringing us a conscientious true crime forum.
Jo Ann Morgan
2023-07-28 12:39:47 +0000 UTCCan she profit from her crime? Paid interviews or a book?
Anne Young
2023-07-28 12:30:58 +0000 UTCI truly just don't know about this decision 😣 It makes me extremely uneasy to think that anyone from THE Manson Family will be out walking among the rest of world. While I fully believe that she probably won't commit another murder given that Manson is gone...I also fully understand that she's been in prison her entire adult life. She won't have a job and will likely find it very difficult to obtain one. She has no friends, no kids, no grandkids, I believe her parents are deceased, etc. I just wonder (and quite frankly, worry) that with no one around her and nothing to do, she could either fall into a criminal life (potentially nonviolent) or she could fall into a state of depression/poor mental health and end up reverting to her actions and tendencies before prison...I know it's not super likely for her to reoffend, violently or not, but at the end of the day she was an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT in multiple murders and I for one wouldn't want to have her anywhere near me without handcuffs on and bars between us!
Paige B
2023-07-28 07:50:56 +0000 UTCI never thought any of the Manson family would be released. It bothers me.
Moon Child
2023-07-28 07:34:21 +0000 UTC
