Shūkō Murase: Gundam with Style

Author: Seth Burn

Editor: Samantha Ferreira

Unknown Outlet: It’s the 20th anniversary of your directorial debut with Witch Hunter Robin. What were some of your favorite experiences working on that project and how do you feel you have grown as a director in the twenty years since then?

Shūkō Murase: Actually, it’s interesting that you’d ask that because I’m so busy, and I’ve been so busy lately, that I haven’t had to think back on the fact that it’s the 20thanniversary of my debut. I’d heard that it was popular in the States. Unfortunately, it wasn’t as popular in Japan, it never quite hit. I don’t hear much about it or get asked about it much in Japan. However, occasionally when I come to the United States, or I hear from others who’ve been to the States, that Witch Hunter Robin is very beloved.

Personally, I had thought that it might not be a one shot. It became very clear early on that it would be very difficult to continue the story. I had always wanted to and envisioned that it would not be just that one piece of work. I hope that someday in some shape or form we can bring the next installment. I wouldn’t be able to say when or how.

JVS Media & Productions:Sometimes with 3D conversion you miss certain nuances of a person’s face. Sometimes details of expressions are lost. What is your perspective on the level of details between 2D and 3D animation?

Shūkō Murase: As you know I myself started out as a hand-drawn artist. I still consider myself an illustrator and artist. This might be a little philosophical, but these are my personal beliefs on this. I do believe that no matter how advanced 3D technology gets, that you do lose things in the art quality. There are certain details that are more impactful and much more detailed if it’s drawn by hand. It’s kind of sad to have to put it this way, but the rigors of the production process of anime in Japan right now, the demands of it, unfortunately requires us to use 3D.

What I’ve been thinking more and more is using 3D to help preserve the way that we used to draw 2D. If we use 3D to enhance 2D, to preserve 2D, and not necessarily as a substitute. There are a lot of young animators coming up the pipeline who are working very hard. I think we’ll be able to go back to a time when we’ll be able to produce a lot of high quality 2D anime works as well.

Unknown Outlet: What do you think has led to the constant wave of new generations of Gundam fans?

Shūkō Murase: Even before Gundam Wing there was G Gundam. I don’t know if I should be the one saying this, but Sunrise, even back then, has prioritized and treasured the fact that, you don’t just have those stories just set in the Universal Century (UC) timeline. You can have all these original works where they’re all still Gundam because you have the common tie of the mobile suits, of the Gundams. And so, whether it’s Gundam Wing, or Mobile Suit Gundam: Hathaway, or the newest Witch From Mercury, we have that freedom.

Each production team can come up with new stories because we still have that mobile suit, that Gundam, at the core, that ties everything together. We can come up with completely original stories that tie back into the original. I think that’s why we’re able to keep producing new Gundam series that can appeal to and draw in new fans. Because it doesn’t get stale.

Loading Snacks: You’ve had a long rich history with Gundam. Is there another franchise that you’d like to do a feature film for?

Shūkō Murase: Gundam started out as just one of many of the robot genre in anime. Unfortunately, I feel that the reality is that the robot anime genre has died out. It doesn’t really exist anymore. I feel like Gundam might be the only one. I don’t want to say that Gundam helped lead to the rest going away, but certainly Gundam is one of the only ones I can think of now of this genre that has a wonderful rich history. I never went out seeking to work on Gundam series. It happened serendipitously. I never thought “Oh, I’m going to work on more Gundam.”

On the other hand, I can’t imagine what other franchises are out there in anime in Japan that I’d want to be part of. I’ve never really thought about it. I can’t think of one on the spot either.

Anime News Network: You mentioned after the screening yesterday that some of the scenes in Hathaway were attempts to improve on stuff you had done in Gundam F91. Are there any other projects where you have tried to improve on a previous work?

Shūkō Murase: At the screening I also mentioned the other common tie between the two works was director Tomino. That helped me work hard on correcting what I didn’t do well enough in [Mobile Suit Gundam] F91. This is universal though and doesn’t just apply to the Gundam works I’ve been a part of. I’m always constantly trying to fix in my current production what I didn’t do well in the previous. I’ve been doing this for several decades now, so it isn’t new or unique to Gundam. To give you an example, I tried to fix in Ergo Proxy what I didn’t do well in Witch Hunter Robin. I feel this is a constant quest of avenging myself.

Anime Herald: Speaking of Tomino, for Hathaway he said, “Don’t make this about Newtype, make this about youth.”

Shūkō Murase: Those exact words are what director Tomino told me. When I first found out I would be working on Hathaway I went with along with producer Ogata to see director Tomino and pay my respects. That’s when he said, “I don’t want this to be a Newtype story.”

But, I feel that director Tomino has changed over the years. He had written the Hathaway novels quite a while before. I don’t want to sound disrespectful, so I say this most humbly, but I feel that he may have forgotten a little bit about the plot. When I, myself read the novel… I think that deep down that’s what he wished for, to have a story about Newtypes. But when I read it, it was all about Newtypes. If I removed everything about Newtypes from the story, it wouldn’t come together the way it does it the novel. To give a literal example, we have the scene between Gigi (Andalucia) and Hathaway in front of the pool at the hotel where they just briefly contact, and all of this information gets exchanged.

I think another central theme of the story is this is not only a world where Newtypes exist, but it’s a world that has come to be because the Newtypes of the immediate past generation made mistakes and the consequences of those mistakes are now playing out. So, I took in Mr. Tomino’s words and advice, but with all due respect, I slightly disagree.

Unknown Outlet: I saw the original Gundam series when I was in my 30’s. I am in my 70’s now. I’m still a Gundam fan. Are any of the characters from the original series going to have more continuing stories?

Shūkō Murase: I’m afraid I’m not in a position where I can talk about it much. Gundam Hathaway was the anime adaption of the novels director Tomino himself wrote. Director Tomino wrote them as a sequel. They followed the events following Char’s Counterattack. None of us I think, perhaps even director Tomino himself, have thought about what the continuation stories would be. No one has written anything yet. No one has thought of anything yet. Perhaps part of the reason others have not is we’re all wondering if director Tomino might come back and continue the stories himself. It’s a very big unknown.

All Ages of Geek: What does the legacy mean to you, as a director, as an animator, and as a fan?

Shūkō Murase: It’s a bit of a difficult question. I would say that when I first entered the industry, I thought in the back of my mind it would be kind of cool if I had a chance to participate in the Gundam franchise. To actually have been able to achieve that, and not just take part in the Gundam franchise, but to have the high honor to work directly with director Tomino, to be given the opportunity to design characters for Endless Waltz…

I think it’s because Gundam is such a behemoth, the franchise in general, where the Gundam itself is a character… it’s allowed such a fertile ground to give rise to so many of these other series that are not just part of the UC timeline but separate from it. In my mind the Universal Century timeline and Wing are very separate. Yet, it’s because of the Universal Century and the original series that something like Wing was able to take form. And not just Wingbut also something that was such a big challenge like bringing Hathaway into the moving image. I’m very grateful to have had that opportunity and I want to say thank you to Gundam and to the Gundam universe.

Honey’s Anime: I love the character, Gigi Andalucia. Her mannerisms and voice acting reminded me of Holly Golightly from Breakfast at Tiffany’s. Audry Hepburn. Was that intentional?

Shūkō Murase: I would have to say I didn’t conscientiously think of Breakfast at Tiffany’s, or in particular of Audry Hepburn’s portrayal of Holly Golightly in it. But now that I think about it, back when I was doing a lot of character, I did have a very Audry Hepburn-like character in one of the previous titles I had done the character design. At the time I had watched a few of her movies, so perhaps there was a little of influence from them. It certainly wasn’t anything deliberate.

Going back to Gigi herself, director Tomino penned a lot of detail about her mannerisms and character personality in the novel. I definitely very carefully lifted that from the original work, but also the mannerisms of the people around me. I kept that in mind while creating what you see on screen.

Unknown Outlet: How do you feel about the anime movement in general, here in the United States, and for robot anime?

Shūkō Murase: I feel that maybe not just in terms of US anime tastes, but even in Japan, I’m not really in the center or core of the anime movement. I say this to my staff a lot “Hey guys, what we do is more the old style from the early 90’s. We do anime that’s a little more realistic looking. Thematically as well. Also, the connection to retail.” Whereas I thank that what is more central to anime in Japan and perhaps the US, is something more intuitive, more cerebral.

Now Gundam Wing, I feel back in the day we were closer to that center. Now I feel like we’re more on the fringe. I think that’s what anime is, maybe not should be, but is, that simplistic 2D sense. I think it is still very entertaining, which is why I put my energy into that. But I certainly don’t think I’m at the core.

I don’t really know myself where anime is going. In terms of robot anime, as I mentioned earlier, I feel that Gundam is the only robot anime left. I’m a little sad about that. I would like to see more robot anime. Not necessarily a resurgence of what’s already been done. I think it would be cool to see new original stories involving robots.

Unknown Outlet: Your directorial style has been described as gritty and realistic, heavily influenced by film noir. I was wondering you are drawn to stories like that and what you feel like your approach to animation has lent to your adaptation of Gundam Hathaway?

Shūkō Murase: I would say it was shortly before I entered the industry, Japanese anime had finally achieved more realism than it had before, in terms of being able to portray realism in the animated format. When I entered the industry that’s what I felt I wanted to pursue. That was before I became a director of course. I pursued this as a key animator and an animation assistant. That continued on in my career as I progressed to becoming a director. I think that’s where my directorial style came from. That’s what the industry had achieved. However, as I mentioned, I don’t think that’s the center of what anime is now. Part of that is because of the advancement of CG. Until then, I think one of the biggest appeals of anime was [that] there were things that had not yet existed or been developed yet, or creatures we hadn’t yet seen, were displayed realistically in anime. And then CG suddenly caught up. So, there was part of the industry that went “Well, we can do this with CG, why do we have to do it with hand drawn animation? We don’t have to use the original anime style to depict that.”

I feel personally that there’s still something to be gained by achieving something 2D. Why do we have to use CG? Why not do it the old way? I think there’s something very special in that.

Unknown Outlet: How do you feel about the growth of anime culture in the United States?

Shūkō Murase: Anime, historically in Japan, grew out of manga originally. Over a very long period of time. So, even though it may not seem new, it was a new genre, a new way of doing things. I think part of the appeal in the US is that it’s fresh, it’s different. I personally don’t know if I can predict how long Americans will maintain an interest in anime.

It will certainly continue to be produced in Japan because that’s where it started. And yet, I wonder, will we see more anime produced in the United States, and elsewhere in the world. It may have started in Japan, but it shouldn’t be limited to Japan. I think if such things persist, it would be a good thing.

Unknown Outlet: Has CG has gotten so realistic that hand drawn animation is counter to that? Like when photographs came out, Claude Monet and the impressionist movement developed.

Shūkō Murase: It’s not a true analogy of photography replacing painters. In terms of the moving image, you can create something photo-like with CG, but creating something equally photo-like with hand-drawn 2D adds more to that. It’s not so much one or the other. Being able to produce something that looks CG but isn’t adds a special something to it.

(Editor’s note: Naohiro Ogata is a ninja. He was in the room for this interview directly across from me and I didn’t notice. The mask and a new haircut threw me.)

Special thanks to Mari Morimoto for translating