Crossover!!!
Added 2025-03-24 20:02:12 +0000 UTCThis graph attempts to walk each enneagram type through the Ken Wilber levels (from my previous post). Think of the lower levels as being "unhealthy" or "pre-arc" and the higher levels as being "healthy" or "post-arc." I would love feedback on this! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kfjN_oRX1iBDdtLDZsbJcELMRgez-Cq2OpcglRrt30k/edit?usp=sharing
Comments
Honestly the way it can be used as the standard for that specific enneagram that is normalized on that societal level AND be used to characterize a persons growth in the story regardless of what societal level the world taking place in the story is actually what makes your chart appealing. The way it’s framed is that the bottom ones are just absent of empathy and intellectual thought (simpler ideas of morality) while the other thrives from it which would imply the peak of emotional and societal growth is empathy. Which you mentioned in your video describing the levels the higher ones have more of “spiritual enlightenment” vibe to them. Which I think the higher levels technically would be operating off of inherent spirituality… I mean in no way did you imply that the top level requires a set religion but I struggle to see a society operating off of nothing but service and empathy for others unless everyone in that society was spiritually enlightened in a similar vein, perhaps it could be possible tho regardless of personal belief in religion since it would thrive off of empathy not actual shared values and beliefs? Or does it just thrive off the only shared belief of coexisting with others through empathy Last point is how the 7 levels have slivers of each enneagram in it. Not necessarily meaning it’s just the enneagram on a societal and cultural level rather then a personal one but that perhaps that certain levels reward certain enneagrams more then others (certain ways of thinking) which almost looks like the levels could be lined up with the enneagram “behavioral patterns and thinking” but just on a larger scale in the beliefs/behavioral patterns that are normalized
Olivia Andersen
2025-04-09 03:32:43 +0000 UTCAGHH I know this is gonna be so helpful and I haven’t even read through it yet
Olivia Andersen
2025-04-08 17:17:17 +0000 UTCIf you were to plug the enneagrams from this graph specifically into the character map, would it go in the core urge section or in the stated belief section?
Bansel
2025-03-26 09:58:22 +0000 UTCI hate to say this but I fail to understand how Level 4 enneagram 6 is all that different from level 4 enneagram 1. I love that you're making this kind of stuff. Keep up the good work.
Nick Heal
2025-03-25 14:02:39 +0000 UTCJust when I was ready to toss out the Wilbur Levels on the grounds that it wasn't quite clicking for me, you had to go and make this... Pretty cool, man. Pretty cool
Pete L
2025-03-25 13:11:33 +0000 UTCThank you for the response! Yeah that “I” self-centeredness (in definitional terms, not connotation) is effectively not in the vocabulary for Wilber’s definition of level 6, if we apply the society-level concept that level 6 is all about a departure of individualism and appeal towards a societal collective, so I can see how that muddies it. But in applying this to an individual character arc, could someone from this higher level impose their will on lower level beings for the sake of a “greater good”? Or does someone that works as an agent for change become impotent at the highest level by encountering some Zen-esque mind block that prohibits disturbing a balance that our character can now perceive thanks to their growth? i.e. if there exists value in the lower level systems, then a fully actualized 1 removes themselves from participating in any systems, as to argue for change is to implicitly value one mode of thinking over another. Btw I know you don’t need permission but feel free to ignore this rambling niche discussion if it’s not fruitful, I just can’t help but chase these lines of thought down.
Matt Fagan
2025-03-25 05:16:45 +0000 UTCThe telltale sign of an integral perspective is that it sees the truth and utility of all levels below it. So anyone calling for the blanket destruction of anyone else necessarily cannot be high level, at least in theory. But I see the flimsiness is basing this on “I” statements. Very few people are going to look at a leveled system and be like “Yeah other people are smarter than me.” This stuff continues to elude words
LocalScriptMan
2025-03-25 02:14:45 +0000 UTCSick. And that’s a super funny observation lol
E FILMS
2025-03-25 02:06:16 +0000 UTCThis is incredible, I love the concise form and mapping. I’m not anywhere as well studied in these concepts as you so I can’t speak much to the content, but one question I had in reading this: would it make sense to pivot this into a “healthy” vs “corrupted” dichotomy, or would that incorrectly blend in value judgments of “good” vs “bad”? For example, the description of E1 level 7 could fit for both a “George Washington” like character and a “Hitler” like character in their own perceptions, so it seems like this could be mirrored on a separate axis representing “healthy” vs “corrupted” vectors of growth. Or is that the wrong perspective, and the “corrupted” leveling is captured in the single axis?
Matt Fagan
2025-03-25 01:30:44 +0000 UTCWell firstly, I think melodrama IS the level of drama you get at red/level 3. Jersey shore/reality TV junk is all level 3. People squabbling over money, hollow competition, everybody cheating on each other, etc. Secondly, yes I don’t see why you couldn’t build a prolonged arc that climbs up the levels of health. The definition of an arc doesn’t really matter here, just the rules of change
LocalScriptMan
2025-03-25 01:16:59 +0000 UTCDo you think an arc could be sustained over a long series of stories by elevating to the next level with each installment? I assume the story structure would also have to go up or down to the next corresponding level to do so. Or would this just mean that each level ascension/decension is an arc in and of themselves? And at what point would they become melodramatic?
E FILMS
2025-03-25 01:11:33 +0000 UTCYeah this is definitely a rough first edition, as I get feedback I will find more concise ways to put things.
LocalScriptMan
2025-03-24 22:12:37 +0000 UTCThis is awesome. I've been reading about integral theory a lot since your vid and have been desperately wanting a concise image like this that boils it down. Wilber's concept of "lines" and how they develop through each level has been fascinating to me, and this is like an enneagram version of the line development chart I haven't been able to find online. Combines your two favorite tools into something really unique with massive storytelling potential. Are you gonna end up discussing lines in the final cut? Maybe how different lines can be affected by different enneagram complexes? Also, I feel like the level 7 enneagram 1 could be the stated belief of levels 4-6. A character could fully believe their adopted definition of correctness is moral perfection, but they'd still be level 4. Because moral perfection isn't really definable/agreed upon, it muddies the level 7 a little bit for me. The other level 7s seem like a departure from the urge, while the E1 level 7 seems like a justification of the urge. Everything else works great for me, though. Perhaps I'm trippin.
tdon
2025-03-24 20:39:20 +0000 UTC
