DoujinStars
Know Your Enemy
Know Your Enemy

patreon


Trump Survives, Biden Doesn't. Where Are We?

In the week-and-a-half since we last offered you, our beloved subscribers, the highest quality election punditry around, a lot has happened: on the Democratic side of the ledger, "The Podcasters' Coup" succeeded and Joe Biden has stepped down as the party's presidential candidate; at least for now, the nomination appears to be Kamala Harris's to lose. Republicans, meanwhile, just wrapped up their carnivalesque Convention, where Ohio senator J.D. Vance was unveiled as Donald Trump's running mate. And, of course, looming over it all was the assassination attempt on Trump in western Pennsylvania only days before the GOP gathered in Milwaukee.

Did Vance impress, and Trump charm? Did the assassination attempt change the race, or—as some credulous journalists ludicrously asserted—Trump himself? Where does the presidential race stand? Are Democrats in disarray? It doesn't seem that way, now, but does Harris have a real chance? Your hosts take up these questions and more!

Read:

Josh Boak, "Biden’s legacy: Far-reaching Accomplishments That Didn’t Translate into Political Support," Associated Press, July 22, 2024.

Ruth Igielnik, "How Kamala Harris Performs Against Donald Trump in the Polls," New York Times, July 21, 2024.

Tim Alberta, "This Is Exactly What the Trump Team Feared," The Atlantic, July 21, 2024.

Ian Ward, "The Seven Thinkers and Groups That Have Shaped JD Vance’s Unusual Worldview," Politico, July 18, 2024.

Matthew Sitman, "Will Be Wild," Dissent, April 18, 2023.

Susan Sontag, Against Interpretations and Other Essays (1966).

Listen:

The Ezra Klein Show, "The Trump Campaign's Theory of Victory" (w/ Tim Alberta), July 18, 2024

"Hillbilly Smellegy," (Matt on Chapo), 2017.

Trump Survives, Biden Doesn't. Where Are We?
Trump Survives, Biden Doesn't. Where Are We? Trump Survives, Biden Doesn't. Where Are We? Trump Survives, Biden Doesn't. Where Are We?

Comments

Both Sam and the guest used the kah-MAH-la construction but ok.

Matthew Hall

This was a fun and interesting conversation. The depth of your analysis is really remarkable.

Kevin Spicer

Sam and Matt are both pronouncing it ‘comma-la,’ roughly, which is accepted and indeed what Harris has instructed folks to do — though most of us without the language background evidently still have a thing or two to learn: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/07/kamala-harris-name-how-to-pronounce-pronunciation-indian.html

Paul Bowman

Are we ever going to some KNE merch??

Richie Laufman

Love you guys but it's a little weird that six years into her life as a national public figure Sam is still pronouncing Kamala Harris' name incorrectly.

Matthew Hall

Awesome. Trump’s often identified with WWE-inspired dramaturgy, but having interviewed actual pro wrestlers (Triple H etc) I’m not so sure. Ziegfeld Follies might be a better match

Kent Miller

The girls are fighting in these comments (only a bit, I get it, these are heated times). I was fascinated by that AOC live. I would have been interested to hear Sam’s thoughts on why she did it. Was she just black pilled against any hope of him stepping down, and trying to salvage any possibility of him winning? Was she trying to protect the progressive side of the party from accusations of undermining his campaign? I’m Canadian, and I generally listen to KYE for the nerdy shit rather then that dank punditry. I don’t follow a lot of inter Dem politics (protecting my psyche) but I was really surprised to see that AOC thing.

Lisa M

Matt rage spiralling accompanied by his emotional support Sam. (A loving description).

Lisa M

Go to the home page of the account you want to leave. Click the (…) icon in the top right corner. Choose “Your Membership” and scroll down to “Edit Membership”

Lisa M

Have you ever thought about having Tim on the show? I’m almost finished with his most recent book and it seems like a KYE kind of book, though it would re-tread some territory you’ve hit on before (Theocons episode, How They Did It). As a pretty constant reader of his work, he’s always struck me as a prime KYE guest because of how well sourced he is within conservative circles. He even used to work for National Review a while back. Matt’s read of his politics is pretty accurate, although since the release of his new book, he’s really started to lean into sounding the alarm on the Christian nationalism.

Dan Netter

Advantage to waiting to listen to this episode: absolutely losing it when Matt says (@ 51:23) "We'll put Vance on the couch later."

James Talley

Re the tension between Camp and solemnity, one can, as Sontag points out, be “frivolous about the serious.” Trump is quite good at using Camp to subvert the self-seriousness of traditional political discourse. So why didn’t it play? I think Trump wanted to move on because (1) it undermined perceptions of him as tough and invulnerable, and (2) the ear bandage iconography was just too weird with not-so-subtle religious overtones. Trump wants his cake and to eat it, too: he wants to be loved (or feared) and be taken seriously. That’s hard to achieve if your base looks and acts even stranger than usual.

Vincent

This was ungenerous. Biden can be forgiven his faults Trump, Netanyahu and Hamas cannot.

Joseph Moriarty

Brian, I agree and appreciate your arguments. I often work behind “enemy” lines and can confidently say that our hosts are mistaken about the nuts and bolts, to use your words, and the impacts of progressives like Sen Sanders and Rep AOC. There’s no magic wand, and not having one doesn’t make elected progressives incompetent. Hearing them being called names gave me big *fuck off* energy as well.

Lindsay

My sister, watching the RNC, said "they will write a musical on him, how he saved them, how he sacrificed his earlobe for them!"

H K

god the vance episode is gonna be great. the idea that he has special appeal for midwesterners seems, to yall's points, more than a little misguided. like i know living in ohio that the state is going deep red this year but i think vance actually inspires a special antipathy in liberal midwesterners/rust belters (think i hear it in matt's voice) that might even drive dem turnout here. anyway, great work as always boys

Jack Wolfe

Yeah I think there was no real upside to the two of them trying to push the president out of the race themselves; you could have seen the older members close ranks around Biden.

werp

Carl Schmitt

Philip Schaeffer

The time is overdue for you to discuss the obeisance of J. D. Vance and his mentor, Peter Thiel. among others, to the political philosophy of

Philip Schaeffer

As a member of the Depressed Left who’s been feeling the existential weight of the last few. Well. The last few weeks, and we won’t get into the rest. But anyways, there was a part of me that felt very sure of how things would go, and it is good to be wrong. Sometimes, uncertainty is freeing.

morecoffeeplease

That’s my understanding as well.

Jon

My understanding is that the campaign could have transferred it to a general PAC that could have acted in support of a candidate but it couldn’t be transferred directly to a different campaign.

DJM

Matt is just more comfortable with rank punditry (sorry, I mean considered political opinion) and Sam knows when to let him drive.

DJM

I'm curious if you will go deeper into the camp topic-- I brought it up with a gay friend and discovered it's a spicy ongoing debate about what camp is and how important it is to underdog communities and specifically gay culture

William Overton

The part of Trump's speech retelling the assassination attempt was freshman-tier purple prose for sure, and the way he spoke made it sound like he was reading the Night Before Christmas to an audience of sleepy babies

James Neimeister

I haven't seen much of that, but my media consumption is very limited

Mark Harper

dreaming of a tough left criticism of Harris as exponent of her party’s hateful positions that isn’t at the same time itself thoroughly misogynist and racist

Paul Bowman

Trump didn't survive. He was never in a life-threatening condition. The shooter missed. Trump got lucky. Saying he survived implies he did something to avoid becoming dead. He did nothing. The shooter missed.

Tyler Paziuk

Am I the only one observing that Matt speaks a lot more than Sam? I think the balance is off lately.

Tyler Paziuk

Regarding Bernie, AOC and the Democratic left. While I think they should have just left it at "whoever the Democratic nominee is, we need to keep fighting for X, Y, and Z" I am glad they did not call for Biden to drop out of the race. There's no way they can be scapegoated for a Harris loss in case that happens, which they probably would be if they had led the charge on the "Joe's got to go" front. Also, Squad members like Cori Bush and Ilhan Omar are in the middle of hotly contested primaries right now, and I get the sense they did not want to risk opening themselves up to the kinds of "disloyal Democrat" attacks that worked so well against Jamaal Bowman in his recent primary.

Chris Maisano

I think Josh Cohen nailed it a couple weeks back. Why isn’t a president with a really good economy, low unemployment and moderating inflation doing better in polling? The answer seems pretty clear - most people thought Joe was too old and infirm. They were not going to Trump, but they withheld support for someone who had definitely aged out for the most important job in the world.

Timothy Poe

Nah. AOC and Bernie are disappointing politicians who presented themselves as leftists and quickly fell in line after their campaigns were over. Now they defend Israel and simp for Biden, like any other establishment stooge. What I find “off the rails” is that so many people on a leftist podcast are telling leftists to sit down, shut up, and accept Biden and other mediocre liberals as the champions of their ideology.

Axel Herrera

One of the “provably false” talking points they pointed to (the fundraising issue if someone other than Biden or Harris was the nominee) is something that every expert I’ve read on the topic said is true.

Jon

We need to take a second to relax and enjoy a few days relief.

Heraclitean

I speculate, but why not? Biden’s staff knew there was a problem with his infirmity (likely Biden was in denial) and scheduled the very oddly early June debate. Biden was going to either swim or sink. And if it was sink then there was still time for a change. Can you imagine the disaster if Biden had fallen apart in a debate in October?

Timothy Poe

I don't see why people shouldn't be hard on Harris. She was completely unsuccessful in the primary last time and offers no ideological shift from the Republican-lite governance of this administration. Between now and November, we're going to be sold a false narrative of Harris as the next FDR, round 2. In reality we're getting an administration every bit as cynical as HRC. I recognize that the case against Trump may be enough, but what exactly is there for the left to like here?

Mark Harper

***Bob Pollard voice***public relations marine

Joel

In America in the early 21st century, this kid with the AR15 does not drop at all so neatly into the historical category of the political murder. We are not in Hinckley’s world anymore, let alone in that of a Kennedy killer. No need to put a bow on the thing in any case. There’s a lot of work to be done yet here, journalists’ and historians’.

Paul Bowman

Hear me out: now that the Democratic campaign has reset, what if we as a society somehow learned that you don't have to have multi-year presidential election cycles?

Tony Zanella

A point they raised in the episode was that AOC, Harrison, and other recent Biden loyalists were repeating talking points that were provably false. How this speaks to a deeper knowledge of the "nuts and bolts" escapes me, but it's reasonable to criticize their abject loyalty in the circumstances. I believe the point was that they were just disappointed in AOC and Bernie. They were sticking with a candidate who was essentially holding the party hostage despite dismal prospects. We can all applaud and appreciate Joe again now, but he wasn't entitled to the nomination - no one is, and it's not smug to say that.

Aaron Banschick

Imagine canceling over a punditry episode. Matt is 100% right about AOC and Bernie and how far they’ve fallen.

Axel Herrera

I definitely don’t see her 2020 primary performance as a reason for pessimism. After all, Joe Biden had not one but two terrible primary campaigns before winning the nomination and beating Trump in 2020.

Matthew

I realize I rambled. So the short version is: I think calling AOC and Bernie deadenders, bedwetters, and liars is a sign you two have gone off the rails.

Brian Marick

I’m glad Biden dropped out. I did not support him in the 2020 primaries, though I've come to think the Black women were right in throwing their weight behind him. But. You’re explicitly attacking AOC and Bernie as “deadenders and bedwetters… all the people who were going to the mat for Biden, they both lied to us, and nothing they predicted has come true, so fuck them.” (Matt’s comments, transcribed) You are smug about the inevitability of things that could have easily gone another way. You’re all “see how easily it worked out” while stanning Nancy Pelosi for pushing Biden out. You never consider that this master politician – famous for herding politicians to a consensus – might have (again!) successfully navigated a dangerous situation. No, you tell AOC, Bernie, and Pelosi that it was all easy and obvious. You might as well be physicists. Or computer programmers. https://xkcd.com/793/ Maybe, just maybe, they know the nuts and bolts of politics better than you do? Nuts and bolts, after all, are not your specialty. So fuck *you*. I’m out if I can figure out how to fucking cancel this Patreon membership, which I couldn't figure out how to do last special episode. (Figures: I'm a computer programmer, so not good at real world things.)

Brian Marick

My ballot said Biden/Harris

Helen Jones

Currently enjoying both how kind, rational, & energetic Kamala Harris seems, and how effortlessly she drives Republicans crazy.

Belle Moore

Can someone explain the part about transferring campaign funds mentioned during the discussion of the AOC Instagram post? Every source I’ve seen showed the money could only be moved to Harris, but you guys appear to think that’s not the case?

Jon

In light of the polling showing Harris maybe getting a little boost, I find this passage from a Brett Samuels piece at The Hill interesting (apologies for the length of the excerpt): *** But the Trump campaign has been adamant that the fundamentals of the race are unchanged and that they are running against a candidate who owns the same record as Biden. Prior to Biden dropping out, Trump led in the polls nationally and in nearly every major battleground state. “Women want a President who will secure our nation’s borders, remove violent criminals from our neighborhoods, and build an economy that helps hardworking families thrive – and that’s exactly what President Trump will do,” Trump campaign press secretary Karoline Leavitt said in a statement. “Women know our nation will be safer and more prosperous under Donald Trump than it is under dangerously liberal Kamala Harris, and that’s why President Trump is leading in poll after poll.” Some Republicans also argued voters know what they are getting with Trump more than eight years into his political career, and that coarse rhetoric is unlikely to change their views one way or another. “I think everyone knows who Donald Trump is, and the last time he faced a woman he won,” said Sean Spicer, former Trump White House press secretary. *** If this accurately characterizes the GOP thinking, then they suffer to some extent from the same over-confidence Biden exhibited when he took credit for the 2022 midterms. The big questions seem to be how much they are mistaking Biden's distinct weaknesses for Trump's strengths and how capable they are of learning and adjusting. On the latter point, I'd guess history tells us a quite a lot (eg it seems pretty unlikely Trump could find it in himself to dump Vance and replace him with Haley), and the former remains one of the things to be seen. At any rate, it is difficult to avoid feeling some cautious optimism at the moment.

HP

it just so happens, our next guest is an award-winning theater critic! <3

Know Your Enemy

Apologies if link-sharing is not done here, but I wanted to credit Matt's early insights on JDV for helping move me to write this piece, The Middletown Candidate. https://norrisc.substack.com/p/the-middletown-candidate?r=779k5

Chris Norris

Comments about camp and Sontag, of all people, were very illuminating. Suggestions: Can you track down an actual theater scholar for a future pod instead of all those amateurs in the opinion pages? A lot of rich research in melodrama of late.

Kent Miller

Harsh but fair - Sam

Know Your Enemy

It pains me to say this, as I have often really resonated with Sam’s perspectives. But more than once in this episode, a single word started to creep into my consciousness: “insufferable.” Perhaps I’ve been so demoralized these past weeks and months, I just needed a few moments—a day or two?—to feel something beyond the chasm between terror and resignation. Is that naive? Perhaps. But right now, I’ll fucking take it.

Craig Lammes

Objectively it was an assassination attempt whose target was Trump. This semantic game is tiresome and pointless. I don't understand this attempt to redefine what actually happened in Pennsylvania except to downplay the event. If JFK survived, we would still call what happened in Dallas an assassination attempt, not a mass shooting, even though Governor Connally was shot too. We don't call Hinckley's attempted assassination of Reagan a mass shooting, because it's target matters to what it is.

Hunter McClure

When the Vance announcement dropped I relistened to Matt’s Chapo interview on Hillbilly Elegy, and you clocked his exact species of bullshit way back in 2017.

drizzly_november

Also, it's quite the contrast listening to this ep. while being offline and not following the election on social media. The DNC chairman should not under any circumstances be reply-guying in public (!) to an ex-ABC News Substack pollster.

Taylor

I don't think it had really clicked for me yet, until you remark on it right near the beginning here, that an assassination attempt on one of the candidates went *barely a week* as the top story of this election cycle. Absolutely wild.

Peter Aidan Byrne

I don’t think we should keep calling it an “assassination attempt.” It wasn’t. It was a mass shooting event. If Trump had been killed he would have joined the hundreds and hundreds of other Americans killed in mass shooting events.

lizzy jones

The man who knew how to take the opportunity after an attempted murder is also the man who keeps insisting that he never slept with a porn star. An obsession with image can lead to the ridiculousness of the latter, but it can inspire you in the right moment. To borrow a line from 'The Dark Knight Returns' -- "I don't know if I would call it courage." (And if you remember the context of that line...) But, yeah, it's hard to maintain gravitas when Hulk Hogan is up doing his torn shirt bit. Mr. T may have visited the White House, but nobody like him showed up at the hospital after Reagan was shot. Anyway, I concur with the feelings expressed here -- relief, caution, amusement at scrambling Republicans. And your JD Vance episode cannot come soon enough. (I will say one thing beforehand -- does he really have any traction with the 'base' outside of Compact and weirdo academics?)

David B Hearne

Kamala is at least better to lead the Dobbs backlash than an 80 year old Catholic man. She's not amazing, Trump could still win, blah blah blah, but phew it's just a relief to have Biden go to the old folks' home than be the nominee.

Taylor

Vance is 100% costume. Catholic, but raised Protestant and later not especially religious before he decided to get in to politics. Working class, but a venture capitalist. An appalachian, but from western Ohio. A marine, but a public relations marine. Trump's running mate, yet also called him America's Hitler. Talk about identifying as an attack helicopter, this guy is pure identity politics at its most opportunistic.

DC

Hearing Matt's riff on the ear bandage and camp, I can't help but think of Trump's charging over to St. John's Episcopal Church in an attempt to disperse protestors and then holding up a Bible *upside down*.

Rachel

Talking about the needle not moving, I also noticed the polls barely moving after the assassination attempt as well as barely moving after Biden's disasterous debate. The post drop out polls are also scarcely different for Kamala than they were for Biden. It seems to me that likely voters are primarily voting for or against Trump just like in 2020. Trump's not going to change, so I don't see a whole lot changing electorally tbh. We'll see what the last few months go with the flood of money on both sides and however the next debates go.

DC

You know democracy is on the ballot when they skip a primary and run someone literally no one voted for

Rob

My take on Trump grabbing that photo opportunity is that it had less to do with courage or determination or media wizardry and more to do with the fact that narcissists hate to be interrupted and he was angry that he didn't get to finish what he was saying.

Chris Vincent

Thank you for the cradle Catholic shoutout. JD Vance will never understand what it’s like to grow up traumatized to the point of neurosis by Catholic teachings around sexuality. My culture is not his costume.

Allen Bitzer

Long time listener, first time subscriber. Thanks for all your work, solidarity from Portland OR and Teamsters Local 162

Nicholas Marrapode

sometimes I wish I could find a dedicated rank punditry podcast that matches the vibes of KYM rank punditry 😅

Welkin Y

Definitely a lot to do with the world of pro wrestling too

Robert E Mealey

Someone needs to write an authoritative piece on the implicit new York campiness of trumpworld, and that someone should be Matthew sitman. That convention was like a dark mirror bizzaro Paris is burning style ball, right? It goes so deep.

Robert E Mealey

You forgot the link to Matt’s interview about Hill Billy Elegy: https://www.patreon.com/posts/8630426?utm_campaign=postshare_fan

Tristan K. Husby

But K is a boomer. Late stage, but still. Says this boomer.

Carpenters Gothic

Sam’s slip into Trump impression — accurate without being straight imitation, unlooked for, creepy af. This grotesque reality.

Paul Bowman

Eagerly awaiting the JD Vance special. He speaks at Claremont, friends with Yarvin, on panels with Deneen, talks about the cathedral and regime change… The West Coast Straussians finally have their seat at the table for major influence, solidifying their ideology as the new center of Republican politics.

Colby Jackson

The candidate almost gets assassinated and everyone shows up in bedazzled Abe Lincoln top hats. It's just ridiculous lol

Brian Swoveland

Thumbnail Kamala image makes it look like she could've been in the The Sundays or something lol

Joel

It's really good to hear this optimism. The last 8 years have taught me some caution around assuming what's going on in my immediate circles reflects the larger mood. Looking forward to the J.D. Vance episode. I'm so sorry it means you both have to read Hillbilly Elegy now.

genrepunk

Spot on with the camp at the RNC. If you watched the direct feed of the convention it was over the top. I'm surprised it hasn't been commented on more.

Brian Swoveland

Jesus! I forgot about "JD Mandel" - amazing lmao

Joel

Kamala is brat

Joel

Joe said he would only drop out if God told him to, he dropped out on a Sunday, I gotta give the Catholic God some props on that one

JerJin

I sincerely hope you’re right!! -Sam

Know Your Enemy

Great pod! I have to say on Harris, I think you’re a little harsh on her which is fair you recorded early Monday. But her recent speeches have been good, in my opinion, her VP choices are nice safe white men, and I think part of what made it hard for her in 2019 is that she was a prosecutor running in a very anti law enforcement environment. I think a lot of those unfavorable traits have been transformed into virtues in this cycle. I don’t want to be *too* optimistic, but I don’t think she’s quite the “bad at politics, no charisma” candidate people sometimes discuss her as. She had a hard time as VP but it’s a kind of silly job. Anyway- speaking anecdotally, everyone I know feels fired up and ready to work. It’s nice to have even a breath of optimism after such a bleak campaign season this year.

Ann K

Is loyalty a leftist political tradition?

Adam Lewis

I just can't see any candidate other than Kamela doing well. I imagine turn out might be suppressed in some groups if the Democrats said "forget this black woman we need another crusty old white man stat!"

Brian Pemberton

It great to hear your thoughts, we all have so much to process emotionally and politically- it helps. Looking forward to hearing your Vance episode. I do think a BIG story that needs your attention is how everything is being processed by young "could be" voters. It's not just the suburban centrist that is needing attention here. Don't make the mistake of overlooking their anxieties. I mean it's too early probably to say much- beyond the online/tiktok stuff, which has already been said anyway - but keep an eye on this.

Sam D.

Does “rarely listening to podcasts” make one a better or worse podcaster 🤔🤔

Vincent

I am not telling anyone how to vote. Ppl will make those calculations for themselves and my assumption is it will be done with the best of intentions. I, however, urge everyone to remain sober and clear eyed.

Alejandro Santos

I would disagree with the left scolding as Matt put it. I see way more scolding of the left by people who are so willing to stand behind Kamala. And showing excitement for Kamala inherently does downplay her role in the genocide of Palestinians.

Alejandro Santos

JD Vance’s entire political career has been derived from Appalachian “stolen valor.” I still laugh about Trump endorsing him for senate as “JD Mandel.” What a boot licker! Looking forward to the deep dive episode so I can crawl in my skin.

Parker W

lol

Know Your Enemy

Wow how did you manage to get Donald John Trump, the 45th President of the United States to appear on the podcast at 54 minutes in?

Lou Guberti Ng

I remember when Kamala dropped out four years ago, and that there was talk immediately about hey being an obvious vice-presidential candidate. I'm hopeful that she's not too terrible, and was just being a smart politician. And here we are...

Dan Anderson

Hit me with this dank punditry

Sam

Coconuts, is there a Monty Python and the Holy Grail meme in there somewhere?

erik w bjorke

🥥🌴🇺🇸forever

Kristofer Nine


More Creators