Buffy the Vampire Slayer 7x19 "Empty Places" Full Reaction
Added 2021-10-05 21:01:26 +0000 UTC
Comments
I think they also had to give Faith at least a little chance to lead before the series wrapped up. She was always kind of cheated out of the full slayer experience, so this helped her arc.
Kirstie Brote
2021-10-14 19:45:51 +0000 UTCOops agreed and edited 😳 thank you ❤
CeNedra
2021-10-10 21:15:05 +0000 UTCCould be regarded as a spoiler.
N0NaMeSowhat Blerp
2021-10-10 20:00:44 +0000 UTCOr the influence of The First
Dutchkel
2021-10-08 23:36:06 +0000 UTC@Sofie you argue that Buffy is flawless and that the Scoobies heeding the warning signs and the dangers is irrational just because they're not Buffy. Whether you know and accept the stakes, that doesn't negate the need for planning and strategizing, or alternative approaches.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-07 21:19:22 +0000 UTCKnowing the stakes and actually accepting them are two different things. And their plans aren't perfect either and they fail too. Many times. But because they are not the slayer the blood isn't on their hands, it's always on Buffy. They have the luxury of not being the salyer and it not being their "fault" in the end. As for being the strategist, doing research and developing strategy are different as well, and strategy is a team effort. Willow and Giles have faults too and you make them seem to be like they never have made any mistakes to but the team into danger.
Sofie
2021-10-07 10:56:54 +0000 UTC@Sofie - the Scoobies do know the stakes and they have been fighting along side Buffy for many years, with Willow and Giles usually being the brains and strategists. So why would they suddenly not use their brains to voice their concerns and use their strategy planning?
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-07 04:33:02 +0000 UTCStaying away from the arguments over the last scene to point this out: Kennedy: "What kind of band plays during an apocalypse? Dawn: "I think this band might actually be one of the signs." Cut to NERF HERDER playing onstage at the Bronze!
Yesmydog
2021-10-07 01:46:06 +0000 UTC@Rey Gallogo you make valid points, and maybe I am a little biased in this. I was in a bit of a rage haze tbh with all the Buffy bashing. That and not all Buffy defenders of this moment have anything to do with Spuffy. This episode is hard to watch, and I agree with most of the scoobies are acting out of character. My problem is what comes after and how that is handled but I don't want to say and can't say because of spoilers, but my anger comes more later than now. For the record, although I find the potentials annoying, I don't blame them. They are right to question Buffy, they are scared and it is the first time they face something real. It's the scoobies that have been there before that I don't get. They know the stakes, this is war! Like the ultimate war between good and evil. With consequenses and loss and they are acting like they are still in high school and it's monster of the week time. I want to say more but spoilers. We can all just agree that they would be dead without each other and the darkest timeline of "the wish" would be a very bleak future.
Sofie
2021-10-06 21:53:49 +0000 UTC@x_Rhi_x tough choices are when you placed between a rock and a hard place. Strategic choices don't require tough choices. It requires level headedness, strategies, and planning, information gathering. Giles made a tough choice killing Ben to keep Glory from coming back. If Spike continued to be dangerous under the influence of the First, hell yeah Giles would make the tough choice to kill him.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-06 21:11:41 +0000 UTC@sofie that's another thing that bothers me...like you said about Giles. Literally the episode or 2 before, Giles was saying buffy needs to make tough choices. Even if it means killing spike...yet she makes a tough choice here and he's having a go at her for being impulsive and rash...contradictory
x_Rhi_x
2021-10-06 15:31:04 +0000 UTC@sofie Think that's a bit too harsh on Willow, her not sticking up for Buffy had nothing to do with Kennedy. She was a mess after nearly losing Xander and of course she's going to be upset that he almost died because of Buffy's bad idea to charge headfirst into a trap that they all were all scared was one.
Steveo
2021-10-06 14:09:49 +0000 UTC@Sofie - just wanted to be as condescending as those who bash her friends who were actually trying to reason with her to take a “siesta” and reconsider. So sorry not sorry. The only one on a power trip was Buffy here. Everyone else was trying to get her out of that power trip. Whether or not you think the potentials are annoying, their point was legit. Giles left knowing Buffy was on her two feet with friends there to support her. The same friends y’all shitting on! And obviously you need to watch the scene again as Buffy said she wouldn’t stay and watch someone else leave. So what’s Dawn to say? And you’re going to shit on Willow who was worried about Buffy’s judgment? After she was deafeated by Caleb, had her long time friend lose an eye? Because you think she was defending Kennedy? I think your bias clouds your judgment (in Kendra’s accent)
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-06 13:27:06 +0000 UTCYour comment about being Spuffy whipped is totally condesing. I hate this scene and it has nothing to do with Spuffy. It has to do power trip all the main characters are on. The only people I feel who have a right to act the way they do are Xander (having just lost an eye) and Faith (who is also a slayer). Giles just Buffy to lead but secretly still want her to listen to his word as if it were gospel. He left her when she was F---ing traumatized from dying but now that she stands on her own two feet and makes different suggestions its time for new leadership? Nope. Dawn? Dawn is just being a brat that needs to feel some sort of power and kicks her sister out of her own home. Willow is the worst offender in my opinion. As someone who has just made a lot of mistakes should be more understanding of her best friend. Instead, she is all meek Willow (such a regression) and if anyone is thinking with other "body parts" it is Willow who just wants to please her crush of an underage teenager and doesn't want her precious Kennedy to feel bad and feel heard. It is even worse that Kennedy is the most annoying character ever.
Sofie
2021-10-06 09:37:05 +0000 UTC@CeNdra we all do it 🤣 i think it starts really well but devolves into everyone shitting on her which a lot less interesting than it could’ve been if they’d stood their ground respectfully and if Buffy had gotten frustrated and left instead of being booted
Flora Smith
2021-10-06 03:52:22 +0000 UTCI fully admit I went off on a tangent and spouted off without doing the research and gathering examples 🤣 but to be fair it was about 1am when I wrote it 😇 but.. I am agreeing with myself, of course, Buffy, being the protagonist is always going to have that advantage but I think I automatically defend the person that everyone else turns on and I don't think Buffy deserved to have everyone turn on her. She does always end up with the win *protagonist/lead/blond/whatever* and I believe she has done more than enough to have a whole bunch of good will stashed up 🤷♀️
CeNedra
2021-10-06 02:45:15 +0000 UTC@CeNedra in fairness, Buffy has led them wrong and made bad calls on occasion, specifically by taking the bait and marching into a trap. She does it in When She Was Bad and Becoming, she did it in Dirty Girls (despite literally everyone begging her to rethink it). When the very next day she demands they do the same thing AGAIN I don’t blame them for balking tbh. She’s also been prioritizing Spike at their potential (no pun intended) expense. Anya and Willow are also reeling from what happened to Xander. I don’t enjoy the potentials any more than anyone else does, but them hating Buffy is perfectly understandable given the absolutely appalling way she handled Chloe’s death. I adore Buffy, she’s my favorite character but she is absolutely not faultless. I do agree that kicking her out of the house is bullshit dramatic effect though
Flora Smith
2021-10-06 02:30:40 +0000 UTCI guess similar to Anya, Buffy has the fortune to be "right" in the end because it's her show. Didn't Buffy almost die because she didn't heed Kendra's suggestion to go get help and that she can't fight this alone? So not sure about "gut instinct" always being right, and when they do end up being right it's all plot driven based on a name of a show that stars the titular character. And actually Willow, just like Faith, Giles, and everyone else was attempting to provide alternatives or make suggestions based on safety for Buffy herself and the others. Faith in fact didn't think it was good idea for Buffy to return because obviously she didn't want Buffy to get hurt or killed. Reading your comment above, I"m trying to think of previous times when Buffy went against Giles and her friends and was right. I know she was in the wrong in the Season 2 Episode 1 "When She Was Bad". And for you cited that Buffy killed Angel to save the world, yet she was willing to let the world go to save Dawn. I know it's sounding like I'm hating on Buffy. She has a good heart, she's the protagonist, but again, she isn't perfect and shouldn't be; and just to reiterate - it's her show so you know she's always going to end up being luckily correct or resolving in her favor
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-06 01:48:17 +0000 UTCI chose to head cannon that they’re all under some weird spell that causes them to turn against each other.
Meredith
2021-10-06 01:42:12 +0000 UTC@Raven Dark - Giles, like Kendra, saw or felt that yet another vampire lover has clouded her judgment; the fact that she hid that from him and others I believe. It's not like Giles was wrong as Spike, under the control of the First, was killing. Buffy has the luxury of being fortunate that her decisions worked out at the end because let's face it - it's the name of the show. By this point, Buffy was not really listening to anyone else's opinion which is really what they were all asking from her.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-06 01:36:25 +0000 UTCOtherwise known as 'The episode that splits the fandom' 🤣🤣🙄
CeNedra
2021-10-06 00:25:31 +0000 UTCI'm very much not 'Bike-Whipped' but I still think they are all very wrong but that's because Buffy is supernaturally 'programned' *probably badly phrased* to instinctively know the best thing to do, as she's got older Buffy seems to be getting stronger and I believe that's for her instincts as well as her strength, not many slayers live as long as Buffy so who knows how strong a slayer can get if they live a longer life? 🤨 back to my point.. Buffy has never led them wrong! Her decisions are the right decisions, she's gone against her watcher and friends before and she was right to do so every time so why do they all suddenly lose faith 🙄🙄 in her now?? She has earned the leadership many times over, of course she wouldn't have faith.... 🙄🙄 in Faith's leadership decisions, Faith hasn't earned anyones respect or trust.
CeNedra
2021-10-06 00:23:49 +0000 UTCThat's fine to say if she was talking about Giles. But her line is "The ONE person that has had my back". This isn't just about Giles if she is saying that. It's implying nobody is backing her up which is obviously wrong.
Steveo
2021-10-06 00:23:23 +0000 UTCBecause he recently tricked her into a training session so that Wood could kill Spike. This suggests she can't trust him. I'm not saying this because I'm a Spuffy shipper, or because I'm Spuffy-whipped. Defending anything a character does doesn't always mean we are biased to the point of being unable to make rational choices. I'm actually not a Spuffy Shipper. As a rule, I don't ship anyone on any show. Couples are just sort of there for me, part of the landscape. When I defend a character, I defend them because I think they are right, or I understand what they did. That's all. It doesn't matter whether you like Spike or not. What Giles did was wrong. I love Giles, and I get why he did it, but he betrayed her trust.
Raven Dark
2021-10-06 00:09:48 +0000 UTCOkay.. I read a few comments and of course agreed with you all but my main issue with them turning on Buffy is .. 7 years and she's always done the right thing!! Her gut instinct and supernatural dreams steer her in the right direction. She killed the love of her life to save the world and now one thing goes wrong and they lose all faith in her (pun intended) Giles especially should have Buffy's back, it's like the writers decided to give everyone a personality change just so they can get 'Bike' alone 🤢 *sorry, can't help that instant reaction* 😁 Xander I understand, he just lost an eye but considering what they've all been through for 7 years the fact that they're all alive still is a miracle. Did none of them ever expect to be injured? They all knew what could happen after losing Jesse in the first 2 episodes 🤷♀️ Even Willow.. she has always defended Buffy's decisions until now.. I have never understood why that changes..
CeNedra
2021-10-06 00:07:51 +0000 UTCRey we don't need to agree but I stand by everything that I typed like I am sure you will stand by what you said.
Tia
2021-10-05 23:50:16 +0000 UTCThat line Buffy says to Giles pisses me off a lot. Like how can she say that after they all just followed her into battle in Dirty Girls and nearly died and ONLY Spike has your back? I think its really bad writing there just used to add drama to the episode.
Steveo
2021-10-05 23:46:25 +0000 UTCI do agree that a lot of people are out of character. It's sort of bad writing but they wanted to up the drama of the ending of the show.
Steveo
2021-10-05 23:43:22 +0000 UTCMany potentials were at Xanders at the start of Dirty Girls but I guess after he got hurt they had to send them back to Buffy's. And honestly is anyone in Sunnydale at this point making anyone pay bills? I doubt it. Buffy isn't perfect here and I would expect nobody to follow her after the way she was acting. They aren't entirely wrong. How can Buffy say nobody is watching her back but Spike? Is that just cause she was mad at Giles or what? Xander nearly just died and ONLY Spike is watching your back? What? She doesn't learn the potentials names because she doesn't want to get close to them knowing they might die. Understandable but from their perspective Buffy just looks like a soulless leader. Anya is out of line for a lot of what she said but also not entirely wrong. Buffy does think she is better than everyone, she said as much in Conversations with Dead People. She knows its wrong but she does feel that way. As for Dawn kicking her out, Buffy wasn't going to stay regardless as she said as much.
Steveo
2021-10-05 23:32:55 +0000 UTC@ x_Rhi_x because of ties to her "I'm absolute truth" which also involved her decisions about Spike and bringing up Spike when she accused Giles of sending him away so that they can gang up on her. So I get why Rona said that it wasn't about Spike. She thinks that only Spike has her back, but that's because he is Buffy whipped - highly biased. There's something else I could add but it's spoilers...
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 23:17:25 +0000 UTCFair comments, apart from where you decide that people who disagree are "spuffy-whipped" when the rationale for disliking that scene, as you say yourself in your notes, is nothing to do with the spuffy relationship. Not sure why you mention spike at all tbh because he says her friends are part of what make her great, which absolutely no one is denying...so I don't understand you tying the "friends hate" in the spike? Not wanting to argue here, I just don't get the "spuffy-whipped" comment
x_Rhi_x
2021-10-05 23:10:27 +0000 UTCI am a Spuffy fan (relationship, not sex) and I agree with you.
Eddie Green
2021-10-05 23:01:48 +0000 UTCAnya and Dawn are the worst in that scene. Anya saying no one knows if she's "better at this", as its only luck that she has powers, she didn't earn them...and Dawn kicking buffy out after buffy literally died for her.
x_Rhi_x
2021-10-05 23:00:42 +0000 UTCJust as Buffy fans get irritated by the final scene, some of us not-Spuffy-whipped fans get irritated by the bashing of her friends. Let me break this down to the Buffy-whipped fans: (1) Anya's comment was not about Buffy earning her leadership, it was about how she perceived Buffy was acting - that she was the absolute truth, better than them, her decisions impeccable and flawless. (2) Buffy stated that she wouldn't and can't stay and watch someone else lead placing herself and Dawn in a situation in which Dawn trying to peaceful resolve the situation by obviously telling Buffy to leave expecting it to be a temporary situation as Faith said, Buffy just needs to take a "siesta or something". (3) for those bashing her friends, let's not forget Spike's comments in early season that Buffy is formidable slayer because she has friends who aide her in her fights, who resuscitates her when she drowns, who supernaturally give her strength and super powers to beat Adam, and of course resurrects her from the dead.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 22:57:54 +0000 UTCIf you were to regard Buffy and Angel as two shows rather than the one universe they share, you could replace Buffy with Supernatural and Angel with Charmed. Of course that would mean it would take you an extra 3 years to finish the former (though you'd finish the latter 15 months earlier than if it comes after Supernatural). Alternatively, doing 2 SPN a week after finishing the latter would bring forward the end of SPN by 15 months, in which case doing both shows at once would only delay the end of SPN by 21 months compared to if you watched it twice weekly from the beginning.
Eddie Green
2021-10-05 22:49:13 +0000 UTCDon't forget that Buffy actually stated she can't stay and watch another person lead. Therefore placing herself and Dawn in this situation in which Dawn felt the most peaceful resolution was for Buffy to leave (obviously temporarily to cool off). I doubt Dawn asked Buffy to leave forever.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 22:45:17 +0000 UTCI don't hate this episode nearly as much as many seem to, including this comment section so far. Buffy being the Slayer sets her mentally apart from the rest of society (apart from Faith), and gives her complexes, as she discussed with Holden in 7x07. She made a rash decision based on being the Slayer and it got people killed because they followed her, just as Caleb said at the end of last episode. It makes sense that they're going to lose faith in her - pun sort of intended. As Rey Gallogo says, Buffy has survived this long because of her friends. This is why it makes sense for them to decide to strip her of leadership - because they can see that the latest of her decisions has backfired. As for Dawn, she's only sixteen and knows that Buffy has super strength - she's trying to keep the peace in an apocalyptic situation, and as such makes a bad decision. It's entirely possible in the current circumstances for Buffy to go and sleep next door. Personally, if I was hosting fifteen people in mortal danger and a decision of mine got people killed and my little sister asked me not to stay amongst the crowd of people angry at me, I wouldn't. Even if I was the one paying the bills - I might ask if she knew how or would need help learning. Each to their own, though - I don't hold other people's hatred of this episode against them. It's certainly a trying circumstance. And if people would refuse to leave for whatever reason, that's fine too.
Eddie Green
2021-10-05 22:40:38 +0000 UTCI hate this episode- it’s just so out of character for all of them. I get it- tensions are super high. I still get super heated every time they kick Buffy out of her own house.
Meredith
2021-10-05 22:39:26 +0000 UTCDon't forget that Buffy has survived this long because of her friends...
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 22:25:02 +0000 UTCWell we know Xander did carpentry and upkeep of the house. And if it's true that he has his own house, then the only time we've seen Xander living in Buffy's house is when the potentials started coming in probably at Buffy's request to help take care of the potentials and the house. Just because you don't see on screen Willow bringing in anything doesn't mean she didn't. In the same we we didn't see Giles and Faith interact much on screen which makes people think that Faith was essentially just left alone to do her thing back in season 3 without any guidance and training from Giles, but I just find that hard to believe knowing Giles. So her sorry excuse of friend are alive because of Buffy and she's alive because of them, and has won the many finale battles because of her "sorry excuse of friends". Try again.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 22:23:50 +0000 UTCSure right about that.
Tia
2021-10-05 22:15:24 +0000 UTCXander does not contribute because he had his own house he was paying for. With Willow, we did not see her bringing in anything. Buffy came back from the death only to be told that she's broke (um is Buffy the only one living there??) and Buffy had to pick up the pieces with searching for jobs and it got so bad that Giles gave her some money to help her. So we have to go with what was presented ON SCREEN. Her sorry excuse of a friends are only living because of Buffy as well. They were all sorry here EXCEPT for Xander, Xander just got his eye out so no shock that he is seeing things one way and when it comes to the history of this show, anytime there is a team meeting of slamming Buffy, Xander leads the charge so this wasn't out of character for him.
Tia
2021-10-05 22:14:26 +0000 UTCActually people just assume that Willow and Xander doesn't contribute to the living situation. And wasn't it Buffy who said that she can't stay and watch Faith lead. She put herself in that situation. And her "sorry excuse of friends" is the reason why Buffy has lived this long as a slayer and is alive again.
Rey Gallogo
2021-10-05 22:04:47 +0000 UTCthis episode always pissed me off.....wasn't it just last episode Xander was singing her praises? And Anya saying she didn't earn it.....i think 7 years of stopping apocalypses is very much earning it. She's one of the few slayers to survive past the age 18. They all came to her for sanctuary, they didn't go to the watchers council headquarters while it still existed, they didn't go to faith while she was in jail, they went to buffy and then they acted ungrateful.
Glorie Bluestein
2021-10-05 22:03:58 +0000 UTCI can just imagine how it would have went for me as a kid if I replied "this is my house too" when my parents would say things like "don't waste the electricity money doesn't grow on trees." That's not how things work. Though at least Dawn is underage, Willow never had a job in seven seasons but lived off Buffy.
G A
2021-10-05 21:45:57 +0000 UTCThis may be nasty but if I were Buffy when Dawn said "this is my house too" I would have said "you wouldn't exist without being made from me"---THAT'S how much I hate that scene.
G A
2021-10-05 21:41:26 +0000 UTCBefore I watch this reaction I'll say this, if I got risen from the dead and forced find jobs and work at the Double Meat Palace to pay the mortage bills then I don't get kicked out of my own home. "This is my house to." line does not work for me when you don't pay the bills which is what I was taught when I was younger. All Buffy sorry excuse of friends can feel how they feel about the methods that Buffy used to get them to where they were however you lose me when you kick her out... Willow has been living in the home since season 6, does she pay anything? Any magical bills or anything? Xander doesn't he still have his house? Let all the potentials stay over there then.
Tia
2021-10-05 21:20:49 +0000 UTC
