Let's talk YouTube ads

Late to the party, but have you considered offering youtube channel memberships? Took me ages to get around to sorting out patreon, but I'd of clicked a simple 'join' button months ago.

Twixxi

I'm a bit late to the to-ad-or-not-to-ad party, but just wanted to give my support for this. Yes, ads suck. Ads at the start of a video suck, but I can deal with - if I know the video is worth the wait. Ads in the middle suck more, because I want to continue and the interrupt my pleasure of watching the video. Multiple ads in the middle suck even more. Multiple ads in the middle, spread out over the video suck the most. So I'm really (really!) happy you still try to keep up with your own values and share it with us, but also have to keep your (possible) income high enough to keep doing this. So thanks for sharing this and let's see how this turns out.

Oskar van Velden

As I was asking before, you got quite a high patreon income, which should give you a pretty good standard of living. I don't know about the UK, but in Germany, with an income this high, you are already part of the upper class. So please don't BS about "life getting harder" or "games getting more expensive" - if you add ads at this point, then not because you need the money, but you want it. And that's greed, plain and simple. You already got a lot of money, but you want more. Because it's there. Fine, go get it, but not from me. I became a patreon to support your work, not your greed. And so I won't. I still like your reading list, though, so I'm gonna stick to $1 tier. Use it wisely.

Stefan Schröder

Take the money, Mark! You work too hard on these to pass it up, it's well earned and I'm more than happy to click through a few ads to watch your videos. Cheers!

David S

Hey! Put an ad at the start of every video, your video is literally too good

Ziyou Meng

I think an ad at the end is perfect in truth you deserve a lot for making such excellent content and I can't think of a less disruptive spot for adds going forward

alex dicarlo

I think the way you did it - with the ad at the end of the video - is a great way. You should absolutely be able to make money off the content you make!

Shannon Blue

Something like that, yep

Game Maker's Toolkit

Get that bag Mark

PropheticPotato42

Alright, transparency: According to wikipedia, roughly 90 per cent of the patreon income will be paid out to the creator. Which would be around 8.4K euros per month in your case, right?

Stefan Schröder

Hiya - I appreciate both your approach and your transparency! Thank you so much. As long as it works like this it'll be just fine. ^_^

Dracaemelos

If I can make a suggestion, please don’t mention the “ad break” in the video itself. It’ll make it difficult if you play with the policy later.

Matthew Hall

1. Digital advertising doesn't work. (Advertisers are good at making people think they are important). Take their money and treat yourself. 2. If there is a way to force YT to display specfic kinds of adverts please deny any political or religious advertising - that stuff can be pretty harmful. 3. I also live in a capitalist society and yes, everyday living is an attrition of compromises on our moral principles. Do the best you can with what you have. What you described there is life-changing money to the likes of me, so I cannot begrudge anyone for that. Have a nice weekend!

I've honestly developed such a huge aversion to ads that I tend to close videos that have them enabled. I think your solution is great, though I would still love to hear your recommendations without having to watch an ad. Could you have an unlisted, ad-free version of each video that you link to your patrons only (even if it's only at a certain tier)? Or would that add too much overhead to your process?

It's all about the reason and implementation, and I think both are explained adequately here. I can't give you thousands of pounds a year, you shouldn't be forced to forgo them, and you can implement them in a way that isn't intrusive to the core experience that people support, which I think is a critical component here and really got me there in the end.

Jarathen

Hey Tim - GMTK has always had "display ads" (the static image ads outside the video window) which means they count as monetised and I get a small YT Premium cut. And it helps with the algorithm. So this shouldn't change that. In terms of value - it goes Patreon > YouTube Premium > YouTube Ad!

Game Maker's Toolkit

Thanks for the heads up and, that's actually quite a good idea! I prefer it this way too as it is not disturbing from the process of consuming the material in the moment. Great job Mark, keep doing the best!

Alexandr Vakhitov

Appreciate the time you take to explain your rationale of doing this and still taking viewers perspective into consideration when most content creators don't. Happy to support. Keep doing you!

dwonged

May as well get the income before Youtube decides to just start forcing ads on your videos and taking all of the revenue. On a side note, you really tricked me into thinking this was a video commentary.

Brendan Mendonca

Appreciate the heads up. Since Youtube is now running ads on basically every video they can regardless, this is a good compromise.

Grizzlebee

Never apologize for wanting to be adequately compensated for your hard work

Ryan Machell

Joining the chorus of people who aren't affected as a YT Premium subscriber. If I weren't, I'd probably like this approach for being tasteful enough to not hit me with prerolls. It's basically the same approach as those who put their integrated ads at the end, like Girlfriend Reviews or MKBHD. Easy enough to skip, content's uninterrupted.

Blake

I’m curious: • Will the algorithm boost your videos’ visibility once you start monetizing? • Do videos have to run ads to be eligible for income from YouTube Premium viewers? (And are Premium viewers more or less valuable than ad-watching viewers?)

Tim Romero

You could use the funds to create an indie dev scholarship fund ;)

Boz

Just keep making videos brother! Ads are annoying but I remember when you had to watch commercials for any sort of home entertainment minus what you put in your VCR...yes I said VCR. I am sure you will do the right thing no matter what and you serve your community well regardless. Please take my money...ads or not.

SHAMANWOLF 1594

Is there any data to suggest ads bother people? A lot of the comments here suggest people would be happy for you to supplement your income with any type of ads (preroll etc).

Paul Froggatt

Same! I'd rather spend a few bucks each month than have those annoying ads. But I assume it also means no money for the creators. But if I still had my "free" YT account, I'd think that ads just before the end credits are a viable solution.

Marc von der Heiden

If not having ads means you're losing out on that much money, then definitely do it. Having ads at the end works for me. It's similar to sponsors at the end, if they're in the middle of a video I often skip them, but if they're at the end I'll leave it running.

Mark M

I have YouTube premium so my comments may be somewhat biased but generally I think this is a fine thing to do. I think 99% of people accept that YouTube is an ad supported platform and a pre and post roll ad plus a sponsor read are par for the course. And for those that don’t like ads there’s YouTube premium. I’d be weary of mentioning the presence of the add in the video though. It will be a bit off for YT premium members but also may be odd if the video is demonetised, or doesn’t have an add for other reasons. I also know that some you tubers choose to disable adds on older video (after a year say) as the revenue from those videos is minimal but this providers a better experience to those new the channel that are binging your archive. This might be something you may also want to do in the future. I’m a big fan of Nebula as has been mentioned already. I think your content would fit in well there. Who do we need to pester to get you invited? If you _were_ invited to join Nebula would you consider exclusive content for that platform? I know a big draw for other creators is using it for content that wouldn’t monetise well on YouTube for example longer/documentary style videos. But given up to this point you haven’t monetised on YT then this likely hasn’t crossed you mind.

I couldn't stand YouTube ads that YouTube now has put in so much over the course of the year, especially seeing the same Google ad every video I watch. So, I bit the bullet and went Premium. But even if I didn't get Premium, I would be okay with your decision.

Moon Spirit

I really appreciate how transparent you are about your thought process and why you make these decisions. And I totally support this decision! Kudos to you -- yours are among the absolute best videos on YouTube, and you deserve to be paid for them!

Andy Hunter

I'm fine with either choice; I'd still stick around for the recommendation either way (those video snippets do help me). I agree that the diminished visibility of the patreon might hurt uptakes (could it be as simple a solution as putting references before then?)

Paolo Torelli

I like the idea, especially with the message that viewing ads means supporting the channel right before hand. So people can decide to stick around or leave right away.

I've got YouTube premium so stick as many ads in there as you like!

Malford

Not a concern of mine, but I wonder whether it might have an impact on the number of Patreons that subscribe at the "GMTK Ultra Fan II Turbo Hyper Fighting" tier. Apart from the lovely people that just want to give you more money, the main incentive there is to be listed in the credits, and as there will now be a separation between the main content and the credits, and I imagine you may get a lot of people drop off at this point, it may be less compelling. Would be interesting to keep an eye on.

Keep an eye on whether this cuts into Patreon subscriptions. My endscreens are where I get most of my Patreon clicks, and I know I usually turn off a video when the pre-credits advert comes on, which means not seeing the endscreen. It's why I've always hesitated to put ads there, but maybe I'm overthinking things!

Ian Danskin

I think this is great but I have a small concern that this will reduce the number of new patrons in the long run. I found out about this patreon because I watched into the credits. If I saw an ad toward the end of a video (not being familiar with the channel) I might click off before the ad is finished, and thus never learn about the patreon. Maybe have some message before and/or after the ad about why there's an ad coming and why we shouldn't click off just yet?

No objections to introducing youtube ads as I'm able to block them with the adblocker - if you were to integrate them into the video itself then I might have a little grumble, though! haha.

Pookage

Haha, I'll stick with this for now - but cheers! Thanks for the shoutout on your patrons list, by the way!

Game Maker's Toolkit

I will never fault a creator for doing what they need to in order to keep operational, even if that includes ads. It's all good.

newdarkcloud

I personally am not impacted since I switched from youtube music to youtube premium last year because not all creators are so mindful about ads as you are. Having said that I think that is a great idea! Especially with just one sentence in the video that people support you by watching the ad you make it very transparent and I bet many more people really watch the ad in this case. And enabling the ads after the 24h it is even covering patreon supporters without youtube premium.

Dominik Bartsch

Hey - thankfully the YouTube editor lets me pick exactly where the advert goes. So should be no issues there

Game Maker's Toolkit

You deserve to be paid for the work you do. I have no problem with this at all. I think you've been holding yourself to a standard very few others do. Here's to lots more GMTK!

John Nolan

Hey Mark ! Not a very big fan of YouTube ads to be frank, but your solution seems good ? Maybe make sure the algorithm doesn't add ads in the middle of your vid on random (I saw content creators discussing this a few times, and having no option to pick at which timecode to play ads).

Dropping in to add my support for supporting yourself with ads! I like your transparency and your thinking on this. I'm a YouTube Premium person, so I probably wouldn't see it? I'm not sure how that affects your monetization on any particular video, either.

David Hayes

As a fan, I really appreciate the transparency, it bolsters my decision to be your patron! As a full-time youtuber, your impressively high morals goes almost 100% unnoticed. Outside of posts like this, NOBODY will notice the lack of ads. People spend hours on youtube every day; because one video from one creator doesn't have ads, your good deed won't register. Consider that a lot of people would love to support you financially but can't; and watching adverts is a way for both you to get some additional income, and for them to feel like they're contributing. Plus if people really don't want ads, they can find both free and paid ways to do it. I recommend putting ads at the START of your video. Perhaps make a short announcement video, or have it at the start of the first video you do it with. You can always donate a portion to a charity or fund indie games somehow! With it, why not create the Mark Brown Scholarship?

OSW Review

If it's going to help you I'm all for it! And honestly having them at the end is probably the least intrusive way to do it (it drives me a bit bonkers when the ads are haphazardly thrown in and disrupt the flow). I don't mind sticking around at the end for the ad break after watching a great video!

MatureBradley

Hey - hadn't thought of that. Will consider that when I decide on the final messaging

Game Maker's Toolkit

Hey - heard of Nebula but haven't been asked to join (yet!)

Game Maker's Toolkit

Hey! To answer your questions - the main thing that changed is that covid continues to impact on the business (fewer talks / consultancy opportunities) and also life stuff. And also, just speaking to other YouTubers I realised it wasn't smart to exist on a single revenue stream. As for money, you're right, it might be less than "tens of thousands" (it's very variable month to month, so who can say) - but it will be significant.

Game Maker's Toolkit

This seems like a great idea and certainly more considered than a lot of other YouTube creators (I also get pretty annoyed by ads popping early in videos, or more frustratingly, mid-sentence). I personally have never understood the connection between supporting someone on Patreon and wanting ad-free videos, podcasts, etc... I support the channel because I want it to succeed! That's it! So if ads mean the great material you make keeps coming, then go for it! ✌

Simon Peng

I want to share small doubt about mentioning ad in the end of the video: as a YouTube Premium subscriber I never see ads on YouTube and for those like me it may seem weird to hear about ad, but never see it. Except you do some fully integrated ad like Skillshare ads etc. In that case ad mentioning will not be disruptive.

Kyrylo S.

I was skeptical after reading the title, but it's clear you've put a lot of thought into how to do it fairly, so it's fine by me. I'll also be sure to whitelist your channel on Adblock if ever I stop donating here.

Nice to hear you can earn some extra money off this without compromising the quality or delivery of the content!

Megukaphii

Your transparency is much appreciated 👍 all fine by me

It's fine for me! I think the experiment last year was a bit confused and meant you leaving cash on the table for no real reason, so support this.

Tom Page

Fully back this decision, Mark, and I admire the transparency too. I think you're well within your right to put 1 measly ad on your video and I think the compromise on where is a great solution. Personally I block ads so I never see them anyway but support it none the less! Although I think it'd be hilarious to hear you do a sponsored segment and wax lyrical through extremely gritted teeth about Lootbox Heroes 3D

Matt Hauke

Dropping a comment to say that I'm fully supportive of you monetizing your content however you see fit, inclusive of Patreon. I'll keep my pledge basically no matter what decision you decide to make here. I see no reason why you shouldn't get the value that the content you create is worth. Your honesty and transparence is a nice bonus, though!

Daniel Zaleznik

My adblocker is working fine so I didn't notice. By the way, have you heard of Nebula? Don't you think your videos would be a good fit there? I know several youtubers who also upload on Nebula and I think it's great to have an alternative to youtube.

Parachuting Turtle

I can live with it. That said, to be honest, i i'm a bit confused. What changed between the experiment last year where you said that it isn't worth it and now? Also, in the experiment you got 1032 GBP from the video ads for the month. That would be 12'384 GPB in a year, not exactly "tens of thousands of pounds." Did you use such a bad month for the experiment?

Naryoril

I think it is a perfect solution! The most annoying part of ads is that they disrupt the viewing experience. If they are there after the central content, they are absolutely fine. In terms of the classroom argument, I don't think the ads will be harmful since the lecturer or student can just close the window after watching the relevant content. Also, I admire that you reach out to your community before you settle on this decision!

biddiBytes

A fair comment - though, for me, the issue was more about adverts disrupting the class, and so I feel this solves that problem.

Game Maker's Toolkit

To be perfectly honest I block ads on youtube and elsewhere anyway. It's part of why I started subscribing patreons here to make up for any "lost" income for creators I like.

Yan Knoop

This is perfectly fine. The annoying part about ads is how they disrupt the viewing experience. I have no issue with ads supporting quality content if they are implemented well, which this definitely is.

Johan Agstam

I’m fine with adverts if they’re at the end. I don’t think they’re a big deal for viewers if they can help to make the channel more sustainable for you.

Tom Stuart

I remember your experiment last year, and I remember that your videos are used in classrooms and you didn't want to bring adverts to that context. I'm disappointed, to be perfectly honest.

Mindes Endian

For me personally, ads are something I've become so accustomed to the friction generated by an ad or two is pretty negligible, it only becomes noticeable in egregious cases like big NBA clips or something where you can expect 3-4 mid-video ad interruptions. If 1-2 in your own, much longer, much higher quality videos helps you continue to make them, I fully support it.

Good idea. I'm on YouTube Premium so it's no skin off my nose either way though, so my two penneth may not be worth much.

Alex Moffatt

Good solution, I support it!

Cranderveldt

Seems a good middle ground and I'm happy enough. I find the thought process interesting and like Julien said before me, thanks for just letting people know!

Si Davies

Hey Mark, thanks for the transparency and explanation. As someone who puts money to helping the channel, I fully support exploring more ways to help sustain your content and make it better and easier to make. I also think this is a creative and clever compromise on Youtube ads, and agree that in-video ads in the middle of the content are distracting and frustrating, and this seems like a good approach. Personally I support this fully and have no issue with it as a supporter. Hope it does more to keep the channel afloat and allows you more flexibility to focus on the content!

Graham Tattersall

Thanks for being transparent about it. It's your decision to make; and I personally don't mind the concept you devised (an ad break sandwiched between the main content and credits), as it supports the channel.

Julien

I fully support your decision!

Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me! You're doing great work. Don't be afraid to reap the rewards you deserve!

Agent Ottsel

I fully support this! I hope it goes well and brings in some extra well earned revenue =]

Topottsel

This is dope, I hope this helps you. ❤️

TheWirv

Fine I have youtube Premium. And for all the other supporters it shouldn't be a problem!

Luke